Did anyone see the story tonight on the 'lemon car' that someone bought in QLD?
I said to my wife as soon as the story started ' i bet its a selespeed ' !!
They confronted the dealer on air....he seemed pretty over it...
said the gear box had been repaired 6 times in the first year...
Kind of made me glad I bought a manual :)
I guess it will be on their website soon enough.
And when they get the Selespeed going they should run over everyone associated with a Current Affair, and if it survives that, point it in the direction of Today Tonight, Rubbish - Rubbish Television, chasing used car salesman down streets and over fences, bringing Australian TV reporting into the 1960's, Colin.
here it is
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8475185/what-a-lemon
As bad as ACA is, surely they're above "Alpha Romeo"
I wonder if she had an Alpha Romaya specialist check it out before she signed on the dotted line, i'm betting no, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on May 29, 2012, 08:22:25 PM
I wonder if she had an Alpha Romaya specialist check it out before she signed on the dotted line, i'm betting no, Colin.
Should you need to when you buy it brand new?
It looks like a 2009 model, not new, wouldn't you just take it to another dealer, and contact Ateco, makes me glad i have a manual, ACA, never let the facts get in the way of a good story, Colin.
My god - did you see the sort of serious problems this car has - the brake light switch needed adjusting as well as a spark plug being "worn"!
Not suggesting one way or another whether there is a problem here - how could one know given ACA's usual standard of reporting?
Anyone can buy a lemon.
The few used car dealers I have spoken too have previously been burnt badly with the selespeed. Basically it's a car bought from the auto auctions with unresolved issues and once onsold, they get the usual waranty claims that cost dollars to fix.
Comes down to basics, some people maintain their car with usual resetting, factory upgrades etc and some do not.
Quote from: colcol on May 29, 2012, 09:46:59 PM
It looks like a 2009 model, not new, wouldn't you just take it to another dealer, and contact Ateco, makes me glad i have a manual, ACA, never let the facts get in the way of a good story, Colin.
Tracey stated at the start of the story "you have to do your home work when you buy a used car, because you don't want to end up with someone elses problems" this is exactly why we all recommend a specialist inspection.
Given, she bought it new in 2009, and has allegedly been back to the dealer 20 times in 3 years for repairs. I'd be annoyed too.
Quote from: Brad M on May 30, 2012, 11:56:48 AM
Given, she bought it new in 2009, and has allegedly been back to the dealer 20 times in 3 years for repairs. I'd be annoyed too.
I'd be totally peed off....but it seems like she didnt do her home work....a quick google of the word Selespeed might have raised some alarms.
guys... as much as i love the brand, pls don't pull the wool over our eyes.
THE CAR WAS BOUGHT NEW.
in 3 yrs, none of those problems should exist. maintained or not. worn suspension arms? knocking engine as soon as she drove it away etc...
a faulty brake switch isn't just non-working rear lights in the sele - it messes with the g/b operation.
she has cause to be pissed, and this was poorly handled. I would have sued his ass. fvcker bringing our marque into disrepute. but ATECO as usual fvcking things up as usual brought it to this point.
good riddence ATECO, now alfa DO THE RIGHT THING, it should not have left the factory this way. These things happen, but it's up to you to make it right if you wanna have any credibility in the industry.
My old boss bought a new VZ Commodore SS that was a lemon. It was just problem after problem. He kicked up quite a lot of fuss and they really didn't want to know but they eventually upgraded him to a new VE SSV about a year later. The car was leased, so maybe that made it a litte easier.
Quote from: wankski on May 30, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
guys... as much as i love the brand, pls don't pull the wool over our eyes.
THE CAR WAS BOUGHT NEW.
in 3 yrs, none of those problems should exist. maintained or not. worn suspension arms? knocking engine as soon as she drove it away etc...
Have to agree 100%.
These cars have dropped a bit value too since she drove it off the showroom floor so its been an all round bad deal for her.
That ACA story did nothing to help the ALFA brand in Australia....given the wholesale value of this car is probably 10K at most, I wonder if Alfa are wishing they had of just replaced the car for her.
She should have done her homework, Selespeeds have known issues, although a 2009 should be better, should have tried another dealer and contacted Ateco, we Alfa people know about these cars, but some think because they are expensive, they are bullet proof, [they are not], a better choice, would have been a automatic Corrolla, as for a Current Affair, i never watch it, but was told about it at work, "all Alfa Romeo's are lemons", it was on ACA last night, Colin.
colin, did you watch it? many of the issues are unrelated to the trans... suspension, knocking engine etc.. from BRAND NEW...
not acceptable...
even if they were exclusively sele issues, the phrase, "merchantable quality" and "implied warranties" come to mind...
touch wood, my 147 is bullet proof. I drive it all day every day including many country and interstate trips etc. Unlike a lot of 147s, it doesnt use a lot of oil....its a gem. Ironically the most unreliable Alfa I owned was my 164 - ironic given this was their rolls royce at the time. My 33s have also been great.
I think a dealer that sells a Selespeed to someone who looks like just a regular soccer mum is being a little irresposible if they do not stress that this isnt a set and forget car.
The dealer in that clip does look like a bit of a shark to me.
My ex girlfriend had a Honda HRV which developed a shudder in the auto-trans....long story short, was a 8K job to replace. Without question, Honda came to the party and said even though the car is out of warrantee, it shouldnt need the trans replaced given the low milage of the car, so they replaced it with a brand new trans free of charge, no dramas.
I think Alfa need to be more accountable for the Selespeed issues that they have created.
Quote from: tony8028 on May 31, 2012, 11:30:04 AM
My ex girlfriend had a Honda HRV which developed a shudder in the auto-trans....long story short, was a 8K job to replace. Without question, Honda came to the party and said even though the car is out of warrantee, it shouldnt need the trans replaced given the low milage of the car, so they replaced it with a brand new trans free of charge, no dramas.
I think Alfa need to be more accountable for the Selespeed issues that they have created.
yeppo - and it's not just a goodwill issue. this is where the implied warranties in the ACL and former FTA come in... just b/c the manufacturer gives a 2 or 3yr warranty, doesn't mean their obligations are over... it has to be of merchantable quality. i.e. if you pay 40k for a car u don't expect it to die 3 mo out of warranty, or to have a diff or trans life of 30k kms... etc...
ALFA are lucky a great lawyer hasn't stuck it to them on an early failure. that said, the worst that can happen is being ordered to replace - so in most cases they are happy to frustrate and sit it out....
nice.
Quote from: colcol on May 30, 2012, 09:30:07 PM
She should have done her homework, Selespeeds have known issues, although a 2009 should be better, should have tried another dealer and contacted Ateco, we Alfa people know about these cars, but some think because they are expensive, they are bullet proof, [they are not], a better choice, would have been a automatic Corrolla, as for a Current Affair, i never watch it, but was told about it at work, "all Alfa Romeo's are lemons", it was on ACA last night, Colin.
Sorry Uncle Col, but I gotta disagree with you here. Even by 2009, Alfa had had 10 years to sort out their shit, it's inexcusable that it's still a problem. Anyone off the street should be able to walk into an Alfa dealer and be able to buy a car that won't give them any issues during the warranty period (assuming normal service intervals are respected).
As others have said, there were myriad problems anyway, not merely selespeed.
I think it is highly dismissive of you to say that she should have got an automatic Corolla, because she's not one of "our Alfa people". What you're basically saying is that 'we Alfa people' (your words) know that the selespeed is shit, so we'll buy the manuals, anyone that buys a selespeed deserves what they get, because they're idiots who didn't know any better. This is not the way to enhance a brands image, or reputation.
The later Selespeeds were improved over the earlier versions, they were more simpler, with less things to go wrong, personally, i would steer clear of them, but Selespeeds are sold as Automatics, which they are not, they are a manual with an Auto clutch, but if my 147 had that many problems, wouldn't you just go to another dealer, and contact Ateco, about such lousy service, no i didn't see the report on A Current Affair, nor do i wish to, i am sure it was a million miles away from being factual, bloke at work told me Alfa was going to send their TOP mechanic down to look at it, should have done it 3 years ago, hope Chrysler do a better job, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on May 31, 2012, 09:25:03 PM
but if my 147 had that many problems, wouldn't you just go to another dealer, and contact Ateco, about such lousy service
Some people don't know as much about the car industry as you Colin, and I don't think they should be penalised for that. They should be looked after if they buy a shit, brand new car, which has multiple problems in the warranty period.
Quote from: colcol on May 31, 2012, 09:25:03 PM
no i didn't see the report on A Current Affair, nor do i wish to, i am sure it was a million miles away from being factual, bloke at work told me Alfa was going to send their TOP mechanic down to look at it, should have done it 3 years ago, hope Chrysler do a better job, Colin.
So you won't watch the report to judge for yourself, but it's okay to rely on what some bloke from work tells you about it? And then it's okay to opinionate on here based on what some bloke from work tells you about a report which you say is sure from a million miles away from being factual? Give me a break Col, something to do with Pots and Kettles springs to mind.
I'm not about to enter this debate as I haven't seen the ACA report.
But in a previous occupation back in the 90's I was able to review a number of cases of a solicitors firm in Sydney who looked after the legal affairs of a number of motor vehicle importers.
There was Hyundai (lots of Excel manual gearbox problems) and Audi (no problems, but I did get to see their Super Touring Motorsport agreement with BJR ::)) and then there was Alfa Romeo.
This was the old Alfa Romeo Australia and what I recall vividly was the owner of a 33 16 Valve whose car self- immolated and burnt to the ground only days after it was purchased! I don't recall the final details but I believe the owner was adequately compensated, and no, I don't think he was given a replacement 33... ;)
Its like a 5 year old at Kindergarten yells that they don't like your Alfa 147, so you get all upset about, watching A Current Affair telling you how hopeless Alfa Romeo's, and you getting all upset about it, no i am not going to watch it, because A Current Affair is Rubbish, has been for 20 years, the lady may have been hard done by, she should have gone to consumer affairs, not A Current Affair so that they can reinforce, that all Car Salesman are crooks, then they will cross promote the Block and then do their nightly T&A report, and people take this seriously, Colin.
Thats it, i am not buying a Selespeed 147 till there value drops down to $500................next year!!!!! And that will only be for its mags...............to put on the 90!!!!! ;D
Then again the front seats could make some nice office chairs.................to use while reading this forum!!!!!
I remember looking at a few selespeeds while I was hunting for my first Alfa.
It appeared that all the car salesmen I spoke to were in denial of its high failure rate and unreliability, often using tactics such as 'but the Volkswagen gearboxes are worse, we haven't had any reports on the selespeed gearboxes' and 'people often complain when things fail, but never when they work correctly'. When I asked for extended warranty on the gearbox, it wouldn't cover the selespeed system - only the mechanical gear itself (i.e. lubricated part).
Given the situation, I would believe that anyone who has not done their homework with the selespeeds would be in for a bit of an eventual letdown. The resultant issue with this is that the uninitiated see 'Alfa Romeo' and 'Selespeed' as one entity, I know I did before I knew better.
If I may be so bold as to say - I don't think Alfa Romeo is a marque meant to be owned by the uninitiated, it demands involvement and appreciation. Sometimes I think we would be better off as a boutique car brand - much like Lotus.
Your thoughts, gentlemen?
Quote from: trippytipo on June 03, 2012, 02:57:07 PM
If I may be so bold as to say - I don't think Alfa Romeo is a marque meant to be owned by the uninitiated, it demands involvement and appreciation. Sometimes I think we would be better off as a boutique car brand - much like Lotus.
Your thoughts, gentlemen?
The thing i love about alfas is that i could go an buy a 33 for $3000 and have a ball driving it.....not sure that extends to too many other boutique brands....
The problems start when people like the one in the current affair story buy them as an A to B run around...
Given the age of her 147, the final irony might be that the timing belt is about to fail.
And when the cam belt fails it will be Alfa Romeo's fault for not making them last 10 years like they do on Toyota's, or the engine will seize, because the owner ran it out of oil, because its a modern car, and you shouldn't have to check the oil, and the Alfa Romeo reputation will suffer, because they are not looked after like they should be, $3,000 for a 33?, thats a really good one with a roadworthy, mines worth about $100, and i still like driving it, Colin.
Quote from: trippytipo on June 03, 2012, 02:57:07 PM
If I may be so bold as to say - I don't think Alfa Romeo is a marque meant to be owned by the uninitiated, it demands involvement and appreciation. Sometimes I think we would be better off as a boutique car brand - much like Lotus.
Quote from: tony8028 on June 03, 2012, 03:26:31 PM
The problems start when people like the one in the current affair story buy them as an A to B run around...
Meanwhile, back in the real world....... Presently, Alfa produce two vehicles. The MiTo, a FWD supermini designed to compete in the 'Mini class' (for want of a better description), and the Giulietta, a FWD small family car designed to compete in the 'Golf class' (for want etc...). Both cars are built on FIAT-made platforms that are also used for other vehicles (or will be in the case of the Giulietta). Both cars are designed for markets that demand an 'A to B run around', and that it will be reliable, yet stylish. These cars are designed for people that do not do grease their kingpins on a Saturday morning.
Quote from: colcol on June 03, 2012, 04:42:08 PM
And when the cam belt fails it will be Alfa Romeo's fault for not making them last 10 years like they do on Toyota's
It's all very well to make fun of Toyota, and they do make some pretty bland cars for people that don't care about driving. But it's interesting to note that they have just released a nice-looking compact sports coupe with a 200bhp boxer engine, with RWD to an LSD via a 6-speed. And all for the same price as the cheapest MiTo. Ah well, at least the Alfa is more fuel-efficient.
QuoteIt's all very well to make fun of Toyota, and they do make some pretty bland cars for people that don't care about driving. But it's interesting to note that they have just released a nice-looking compact sports coupe with a 200bhp boxer engine, with RWD to an LSD via a 6-speed. And all for the same price as the cheapest MiTo. Ah well, at least the Alfa is more fuel-efficient.
Sheldon , Probably agree with most of what you said. Made me go and goggle the link to the new FT 86.
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/30000-toyota-sports-car-for-2012-20110302-1be0b.html
One of the comments posted made me laugh & ithought it might have come from Uncle Col, I quote " Nice car... shame it'll be ruined by the inevitable massive wing, 5" fart cannons, neons and doof doof from the demography it appeals to"
Gully
Here's a more recent link, with confirmed pricing at $29,990. http://www.caradvice.com.au/175446/toyota-86-pricing-and-specifications-revealed/ (http://www.caradvice.com.au/175446/toyota-86-pricing-and-specifications-revealed/)
"The 86 is meant to be enjoyed by as many driving enthusiasts as possible, and our pricing will extend its appeal to people who never imagined they could afford such a fun car," says Toyota Australia marketing manager Matthew Callachor.
Toyota 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada added: "We developed an authentic sportscar so that ordinary people can experience the joy of exciting driving."
This car is far more interesting than anything Alfa makes at the moment, and it's made by Toyota. This is the sort of car that Alfa should be making.
I'm not even going to mention BMWs M3 and M5 etc.
And i notice on a lot of ebay and car sales adds, they will say for transmission, 'auto', then say 'auto clutch' sequencial shift, and if you didn't know any better you would think its an auto you were buying, a lot of Selespeed owners love them, but i still prefer manuals, Colin.
My preference was strictly only manual for driving pleasure,but keeping an open mind i stretched the envelope of common sense and bought a gt selespeed and can honestly say that after 7 months of trouble free motoring(knocking on wood)have fallen in love shifting the levers,have given up city mode as boring, the responsive selespeed is silky smooth and a lot of fun and very free revving,so once i was a detractor now i am a fan,it pays to have an open mind and look outside the square and dont believe everything you hear including this forum,nothing beats personal experience,then u can truly judge with knowledge. As far as the alfa 147 ateco debacle,i remember going to a BEEMA function and hearing an experience from a woman that bought a new beema ,she was convinced her beauty was built on a monday has her new purchase visited the service dept. more frequently than being enjoyed on the road,she also had a long list of faults since purchased new,but of course people perception of brands has a different effect on the public.Dont believe everything you hear. regards
Lombardi, I feel the same, with respects to selespeed. The JTS I now own is the second, the first TS 156 selespeed was a little troublesome but the experience didn't dampen my adoration nor the fun of driving the 156.
I work in a different mechanical workshop every day and I see troublesome cars of ALL different makes all the time. Holden's Astra would almost unanimously be the most complained about car by mechanics who are concerned customers think they may be being ripped off yet very little is published about the mighty little "Aussie" car. Most of Alfa's "reliability" issues is simply ignorance by the majority of mechanics of what to look for and what fails on them.
Holden's Commodore and Ford's Falcon are by no stretch of the imagination a "reliable" car. It is only that most mechanics know where to look for potential problems on them and recommend action before they become problems. My father (also a qualified mechanic) always said if all Holden's and Falcon's were as reliable as Toyota's Corolla there would be less mechanical businesses around and I think he was right.
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on June 05, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
[
Meanwhile, back in the real world....... Presently, Alfa produce two vehicles. The MiTo, a FWD supermini designed to compete in the 'Mini class' (for want of a better description), and the Giulietta, a FWD small family car designed to compete in the 'Golf class' (for want etc...). Both cars are built on FIAT-made platforms that are also used for other vehicles (or will be in the case of the Giulietta). Both cars are designed for markets that demand an 'A to B run
My opinion only but i believe that the Golf buyers who by the toss of a coin get swayed over the Alfa are the ones who end up in stories such as the ACA one.
There are still inherent 'features' (some may call issues) that make Alfa more suited to someone who will check the oil every week.
You may well be correct. The point I was trying to make is that Alfa are explicitly targeting those buyers, so their reliability needs to match the market expectation. I'm sure that this is what Alfa intends also; if they were going to target their cars towards Alfa fans that would be aware that their new car needs more attention than the normal new car, their market would be very small, and shrinking every day.
If Alfa were to produce something special (like the 4C for example) that was aimed at a niche market, then sure, it wouldn't be unreasonable that something like that would need more than usual attention. But, if you're producing (and let's be honest) pretty mediocre hatchbacks, then those cars need to be as reliable as the next hatchback. At the very least, as reliable as the next European hatchback.
I don't understand why people are happy to make excuses for the fact that Alfa just isn't in a good place at the moment. We all love Alfa, almost every car enthusiast has a place in their heart for Alfa. But really, the best you could say is that the product right now is good-looking but average. It's heart-breaking that VW, BMW, Toyota, amongst many others, have cars that are far, far better than anything Alfa can make, and in market segments that Alfa should be dominating. Very sad.
According to the news on the radio this morning, the Prostitute on A Current Affair that was rumured to have been paid $60,000 by A.C.A., to spill the beans on Federal MP Craig Thomson, saying she had sex with him, when asked about cheque book journalism, the producer said sheepesly, that she wasn't going to do it for a latte, has now said that she didn't have sex with him, as she checked her passport, and she was in New Zealand at the time, this is despite A.C.A. putting the story on 3 nights in a row, just when you thought of A.C.A. as gutter journalism, it seems it has sunk even lower into the sewer, don't beleive everything you see on TV or in the paper, Colin.
Your personal issues with ACA are all well and good Colin, but your main point still seems to be that consumers should either be aware of and/or accepting of Alfas being sub-standard quality products.
Sorry, but what a crock.
Alfa Romeo should provide a quality product and back up their sales. If this is totally legit from what the ACA story suggested, Alfa Romeo should do better, much better. However, to be fair we didn't get the whole story, the sales guy walked away, maybe conveniently filmed at only one point in the interview, I'm sure ACA wanted it to look that way.
Quote from: Steve S on June 08, 2012, 01:55:10 PM
I'm sure ACA wanted it to look that way.
I actually think ACA missed a trick here...the real story was the selespeed angle...they casually said 'the gear box had been repaired 6 times' ...had they done their research on this point they could have potentially had a truck load of other viewers contributing their selespeed horror stories. The faults that were listed was so random that nobody could really relate to it....it was obviously a one-off lemon which may have a dubious background - who knows.
If the gearbox had been repaired 6 times, then the dealer doesn't know how to fix it properly, should have taken it to another Alfa dealer, but it was 3 years old, and it had the original owner, i wonder how many klms it had done as the fronts usually don't start knocking until 60,000Klms, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on June 09, 2012, 10:55:45 PM
i wonder how many klms it had done as the fronts usually don't start knocking until 60,000Klms, Colin.
My 147 has done around 70K and it purs like an Abyssinian - no knocks at all
I suppose it depends on how many and how fast you hit speed bumps, if you lived in inner city of Melbourne, and failed to slow down enough and clobbered the speed humps regulary, and wore out your front suspension, you could go on A Current Affair and have a good moan about rubbish Alfa Romeo's, Colin.
Quote
...it was obviously a one-off lemon which may have a dubious background - who knows.
The truth(in Australian current affairs tradition=bullshit) is it was rebuilt from this (see pics below)...
BTW Some idiot said Alfa are "mediocre hatchbacks" ...the only thing mediocre is journalism...wankers that never have or will buy a new car but then rely on other idiots that bought 2nd/3rd hand flogged cars to post their "I;m a low baller cheap car buyer but will judge the "new" car on the heap I buy..." give me a break.
FYI 147 had class leading handling and "go kart" like qualities, the Selespeed works fine, in my case brilliant...not one Selespeed fault and indeed my 147 from new 2006 hasn't had one failure...except the battery...6yrs 7mths since the build date (never recharged)...so fcuk off ignorant knockers.