Hello, and 147 overheating issues

[fasty80]

Hi guys,

New on here so hello to all. We recently bought my fiance a 147 2.0 selespeed and we love the car! I'm more of an Audi car myself, I drive a B5 S4, but the Alfa really is a magnificent car!

However....

Three weeks ago on that 43 deg. ++ day in Melbourne, the car started to overheat. When I came home I noticed the reservoir very low (essentially there was nothing left in the reservoir). I topped it up with distilled water for the time being and put it down to extreme heat conditions. It ran fine until today.. overheating again, no coolant.

So, now I want to flush out the cooling system and hope its old coolant. The car has only done 104000 and I know the Paraflu coolants are long life (250000+)...

As there are no visible leaks on the exterior, the only other solution is a leaking gasket. The worse issue would be cracked header .. but I don't think the car would actually run fine for three weeks with a cracked header.

Has anyone had this problem before? Any suggestions or ideas? Any Alfa know-hows?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

fasty

[colcol]

First of all, check the thermostat, 156's and 147's eat thermostats, they usually stick open and run too cold, but have been known to stay shut and overheat, check around the coolant tank overflow for evidence of coolant coming out, the Paraflu coolant is red / pink, so any coolant expelled will be easy to find, also check the thermostat for leaks, i had one leaking, where the plastic male pipe goes into the alloy housing, the 156 and the 147 usualy don't overheat at all, [unlike 33's!], Colin.

[fasty80]

Thanks Colin I'll be sure to check the thermostat when I get home tonight...

It just dawned on me it's possible the thermostat is getting stuck in open/close positions because sometimes the coolant temp hits 80 and even lower.

[Steve S]

It could be the thermostat but "checking it" is not that easy. You need to check it for leaks first. The coolant must be going somewhere regardless of the thermostat. There are only a few options, leaking out, leaking in or boiling over. Boiling over would be noticeable so it's either leaking out or in. The system needs to be pressurised to check for external leaks. If the pressure cap is good it should pressurise as it warms up. Take it to a shop if you can't manage a through inspection. No leaks, it's more than likely leaking past the head gasket, maybe caused by that thermostat if it's stuck closed.

[Cool Jesus]

Fasty, what's the service history like?  Many non Alfisti 147 (or any model in fact) owners are complacent with looking after there cars and start to cry wondering why it keeps letting them down. When and what was last service? when was system last flushed? Coolant doesn't mysteriously evaporate, unless its been filled with just water. There should be preferably (on the better end of break down scale) signs of external leakage, as has been mentioned white reddish crusty stuff to a liquid leak/spray or puddle on the ground. If its internal (bad end of the scale) check oil on dipstick and oil cap for signs of water contamination if head leaking into oil. The oil will be a dirty light brown or even have a white emulsion colour to it. If leaking into piston check for steam at exhaust and reduced performance or perhaps even check plugs?
Diagnosis will be greatly assisted if engine bay is degreased and washed clean. Even just a pin prick in a hose will go unseen on those hot days as the liquid is evaporated externally.
As Steve is pointing out, eliminate the easy fixes before pulling the car apart. Check all hose joints, check hoses should be soft not hard or bulged, is the car reach operating temp (~90 on gauge), does temp change when car moving or stopped (thermostat or radiator issue), any performance issue ( head gasket, don't drive until fixed), is there water in foot wells indicating leak at car heater end.
As col mentioned, coolant issues are unusual barring thermostat and hose replacement, not to mention prior owner not fixing issues properly. I recently flushed my 147 after the top hose broke and sprayed the engine bay in some white crap. Found the prior idiot had filled it with some chemweld stop leak crap which explained the dirty reservoir tank, there was enough for me to make a piece of pottery out of the sludge that came out. Having to keep a close eye on it now to see what they were trying to bandaid.

[fasty80]

Service history is perfect: regularly serviced at Alfa all its life. The intermediate services had been done through Alfa too... but to be honest I wouldn't take my car to an Audi dealer to get it serviced, so I haven't decided if that's a good or a bad thing.

As far as external leaks go, last time i looked i didn't find anything. Although to be honest, I got home from work looked it over (the car had been standing for at least an hour before i got there), filled radiator reservoir and put it down to coolant boiling and escaping through over-fill valve due to extreme temperatures. Here's what I do remember though - once I topped up the reservoir and let the car warm up, I opened the cap and the coolant was clearly boiling. Engine temp. shot-up straight away. I also had the car running whilst reservoir open and noticed no bubbles that would indicate leakage through gasket, so I have almost ruled out a leaking gasket. There also seems to be no power loss.. but I dont drive the car enough to know how much power it should have.

Engine bay is immaculate. I check the oil regularly on my cars and no sign of water in cylinders. No white water vapor out of exhaust either. I'll double check spark plugs tonight, and go through the hoses again.

I will do a coolant flush and see if it comes out normal. Which Paraflu coolant is good to use? Blue or Pink?

ps. that's unusual jesus, never heard of people trying to patch cooling systems!

[Steve S]

Were the radiator fans cycling on and off while the engine was hot or overheating? 

Since you have ignored the advice we have offered and continue to just make assumptions and guesses, I can't really help you, none of us can.

We can wish you all the best of luck changing the coolant though. I mean that with all sincerity, I hope it works. Use the same Paraflu that is in the system. Check your owners manual or service history. You dont need to use Paraflu though, any antifreese/antiboil coolant will be fine so long as you flush out the old stuff.

[fasty80]

I don't see how I'm ignoring any of you? If anything I am agreeing and saying I will act on the suggestions that have been put forward.

The reason why I'm flushing the fluid is not because I think it will work (although I'm secretly wishing it does fix the problem) but because I have added a litre of water to it and want to bring it back to 50/50 ratio.

I didn't mean to cause anyone any offense if that is how it came across.

[fasty80]

Oh and to answer your other question, the fan was constantly on, not cycling.

I'll check the mentioned things tonight and keep you posted if I find anything (or if I don't).

Thanks for the advice.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

ps. that's unusual jesus, never heard of people trying to patch cooling systems!

They're great!!  A friend had an engine driven fan 'propeller' itself into the radiator on a rally a couple of years ago while going through a river, which put some big holes in the radiator.  A couple of those shotgun pellet style stop-leaks sealed it up no problem, the car made it another 1500km.  I've also seen them seal up a slight head-gasket leak for a couple of years.

Can't help with your problem unfortunately, but even to a novice like me, I would think it very strange that your coolant was boiling.  Possibly a stupid question, but are these systems self-bleeding like 80s Alfas?

[colcol]

Check the thermostat, take it out and cook it in some boiling water and it should be fully open by 84c, have a thermometer in the boiling saucepan to check the temperature, if faulty get new one, i think it is  jammed shut, and the car is boiling throwing out all the coolant from the overflow tank, the correct coolant is the pink/red stuff, not the green or blue coolant, the brand to get is Paraflu [genuine] or Nulon or Repco, the pink/red is long life and it has chemicals in it to stop organic growth in it, and the best thing about the coolant color is that when it leaks it is easy to find the leak, my thermostat leaked about 200 mlls, and it was everywhere, easy to find, Colin.

[Cool Jesus]

Yeah the 147 is self bleeding bar one bleed valve on the heater hose. Evan the pellet style stop leak is Bar's Stop Leak, father in law (as you pointed out) swore by it when he ran a bus company back in his day.

Fasty, use the red coolant, I use Nulon. Secondly, listen to Col, he's a dinosaur on this forum and has seen it all, he is our village elder, not the idiot that I am  One thing I've noticed with the later model Alfa's, they do reach their coolant temp fairly quick (due to all the alloy I guess), and then just stay there all day long.

The service history sounds really good and yes, this marque needs a mech/tech that knows the brand. Doesn't need to be the dealer, I agree, I wont use my local AR Dealership any indy Alfa mech should be worthy.

OK sounds like you have a reasonable idea of what you're doing, I wouldn't bother with the plugs with what you've diagnosed. Fan staying on, yeah check the thermostat, as Col suggested, there's no gaskets, its just a rubber ring gasket. A bit of a pain to remove the hoses is all. New thermostat is btn $50 - $100 due to being built into that housing unit. But coolant shouldn't boil/evaporate per your synopsis. Wouldn't surprise me if its very low water:glycol ratio.

Not sure what Steve is pointing to, don't stress over it. You have to be careful with how you write on these sites and how you read others. See how you go with the thermostat and Uncle Col's pointers 

[Cool Jesus]

Fasty, I was pondering my last post about an Alfa mech being preferred. Having said that, I don't want to state that no mechanic should work on your Alfa, just that an Alfa mech would be more likely to pinpoint the issue rather than trial and error, simply because they have the right tools and experience with this marque. There's really nothing overly special with most Alfas, hell the majority of forum members all do there own work on them and successfully too. The only real difference is that it can get expensive if one gets it wrong. Lastly make sure you post a hopefully successful resolution to your issue. It all helps us backyard mechanics to look after and keep our Alfas on the road

[fasty80]

Colin, thanks I'll be sure to do that. My friend got himself into a bit of a car accident yesterday - hit a parked trailer (one of those Jim's Mowing ones, connected to a standing Hilux). He split open his knee and was out of action, thought I'd keep him company. I will try to pull out the thermostat tonight.. is the o-ring seal replaceable or does it break?

Jesus, I will definitely keep all of you posted, thanks for the helpful replies.

When it comes to servicing, I like to take it to a mechanic so if anything goes wrong I can blame them  and you're 100% right, when you work with a specific car and that is your specialty, you know more about it than a general mechanic.. so while we're on the topic, any suggestions for some good Alfa mechanics??

[Evan Bottcher]

On the home page of the vic club (http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/) there are links on the right to our club sponsors.  Mauceri Motors (Clayton), Monza Motors (Bayswater), and Maranello Pur Sang (Brunswick) are all independent specialists.  All three come highly recommended, so it really just depends on where you live/work.

Steve S really answered your question - you need to test your thermostat, and probably replace anyway as it's probably the original and won't be 100% even if it's not causing this problem.  You need to pressure test the cooling system to be sure there isn't any leaks - even if there weren't, after boiling it there might be now.  The workshops above will have a pressure tester which attaches to the radiator cap and lets you pressurise the system and monitor the pressure on a gauge.  That'll find any problem very quickly.

Sounds most likely to be the thermostat sticking closed.  Good luck!