2003 156 jts selespeed - opinions

[Alfa_alchemist]

hello Alfa friends

this is my first post on this forum because I'm interested in purchasing a 156 jts selespeed (face-lift model). Now this is a short story:

the 156 in question is going for sale below the market value because the previous owner has blown the engine (55k on the clock) and the dealer selling it has reconditioned the engine - they had it at a higher price but because of no interest shown from the customers, they put the price right down.
I am going for a test drive in a few days and according to the dealer the car runs perfectly with no issues.
Now I want your opinion guys - would this be a high risk purchase? I've heard the horrific stories regarding the jts enigine's reliability (i doubt the timing belt has been done on this engine - but I would do that straight away anyway) How expenisive is the jts enigine to maintain - average cost of timing belt service?
Is the selespeed in these cars better that the ones in the older ts engines?

thank you

[Alfa_alchemist]

thanks for the quick reply TurboGTV, regarding the dealer they are not an official alfa dealer - they are just a general used car dealer for european cars (they also supply parts for the european vehicles).

Well after i take a test drive I will know more details about the car but I'm just affraid of what might have been the cause of the engine to blow up at such a low k's - is this an unfortunate trait of the jts engines even with the good maintenance? Are there any tell-tell signs of a crapy jts engine with a first drive?

Another thing I'm worried with is the selespeed's reliability - I know the actuator has been revised on the facelift models (2003 -) but how reliable is it now cause almost every older model selespeed has failed at some point - I can't seem to find any owner experiences with the new selespeeds.

Anything else i should pay attention to?

thanks 

[Alfa_alchemist]

Ok guys I have taken the Alfa for a half an hour test drive today.

There seem to be no obvious mechanical issues with the car as the engine was pulling strongly (and it was a hot day with the aircon on).
The selespeed gearbox takes some time getting used to and is best when used in the 'manual' mode. The 'city' mode is a bit of a shocker -the gearbox is desperately trying to find the right gear for the right situation but most of the time it seems to decide on the wrong gear, jerking alot between lower and higher gears (its not your regular, smooth auto, thats for sure).
But I can get used to it in the manual mode (I still have doubts about its long term reliability so it would be great if somebody can share some owner experiences with these new, revised selespeeds).

The salesman told me that the cause of the engine blowing was a timing belt failure (you were right 'TurboGTV'), which they replaced and fully reconditioned the engine. They also give 3 months warranty.

Now there is one thing that kind of bothered me - when I first started the engine I popped the bonnet open to have a look at it and see how it works and there was a bit of a knocking/rattle noise coming from the engine (like a diesel but with the volume turned down).
As the engine wormed up, the noise almost disappeared but it was still notisable if you put the ear close to the engine - is this common for a JTS engine or could it be a sign of more trouble ahead?

[Doug Gould]

The selespeed bothers me a little. My 156 is manual and I'm not a fan of selespeed, but I have driven a number as loan cars. I don't like selespeed because my brain doersn't work that way, not because of any deficiency in the system. I have never had a car hunt for gears in city mode. The change can be abrupt, but I have never experienced one hunting for the correct gear. I'm also a little suspicious about a CAM belt going at 55k. The replacement interval is 60k and manufacturers generally place a large safety factor on this. If it legitimately broke early - why didn't alfa replace it under warranty? All the service guys that advertise with the club are good guys, I'd be taking it to the closest one for a check.

There is a ticking noise than can occur as a result of some part of the engine breather system doing something. There is an Alfa Service bulletin on the issue.

Doug Gould

[Doug Gould]

Forgot mine had the 5 year Alfa warranty they did as a promo. The point still remains that driven nicely the belt should last 100,000km or more. There are plenty of old Alfa's doing just fine with time expired belts. My GTV6 would be one of them. So what was the previous owners driving style / maintenance regime? If the previous owner hurt the engine - what other bits are also in pain? Note that Australian trade practices law does not recognise time limits. Basically, as far as the law is concerned a fault is a fault is a fault.

Doug

[Paul Gulliver]

Not changing the timimg belt on a 156 every 60,000 is just like playing russian roulette. You are deferring maintaince that has to be done (cost of changing belt $800 to $1,000). But risking a $5,000 to $10,000 engine repair bill. I know from personal experience. Belt broke on  my 156 about 5 years ago. I had opted to wait 80,000 as per the book . It broke in the carpark at work starting the engine (bent all the exhaust valves, $3,500 repair bill). Imagine what you can break & damage if it lets go at freeway speeds. 

[Scott Farquharson]

Couldn't agree with Paul any more emphatically - belts must be changed every 60k - the risk isn't worth it.  Did one on mine at 60k - same - bent valves - the lot.  Don't risk it.  This is a well know issue and there are meny examples of it happening.

[Alfa_alchemist]

thanks for your advice guys

now I'm stil interested in purchasing of this car but as some of you have advised me, the best course of action would be to bring an alfa specialist with me next time I have a look at the car.
This way he can give me his opinion regarding the mechanical state of the car, especialy the engine.

The issue is how do I bring the specialist with me - I live in Sydney (Liverpool area) and there aren't that many (if any) specialised alfa repairers here. The best option would be to take the car to the closest official Alfa dealer for the full check up, but ofcourse I would have to own the car first before I could bring it there (you leave the car for a whole working day for inspection - $150) and they can't leave the alfa premises even if you pay them.

I dont personaly know any alfa mechanics and I don't wanna bring some general Joe Blow mechanic who probably never worked on the jts engine in his life. Do you have any recommendations?

[Jekyll and Hyde]

The issue is how do I bring the specialist with me - I live in Sydney (Liverpool area) and there aren't that many (if any) specialised alfa repairers here. The best option would be to take the car to the closest official Alfa dealer for the full check up, but ofcourse I would have to own the car first before I could bring it there (you leave the car for a whole working day for inspection - $150) and they can't leave the alfa premises even if you pay them.

If the selling dealer won't drop the car down to a specialist of your choice, or permit you to take it there yourself, then its time to walk away.

[Alfa_alchemist]

Following your advice TurboGTV, I have asked the salesman to book the car for the full check up at Alfa dealer.
He agreed to it and the car is booked for this Friday after which they will give me a full report on the car and recommendations of what needs to be fixed.

Now this is where it gets a bit complicated - I told salesman that in case anything needs to be urgently fixed, the cost of that repair should be taken off the price of the car (I would leave the car at the alfa dealership so they can fix it).
He suggested that the price stays the same but anything that needs fixing will be fixed by them (their company is part used car lot, part repair shop for european vehicles) cause the costs from official alfa dealership are usually very high.
He also offered a full one year warranty on engine, gearbox and electrics. Is this a good deal?

[Anth73]

My advice...thereares plenty other low kilometre Alfa 156's on th market so save yourself the hassle and the concern. Look out for a genuine low kilometre vehicle with full service history and embrace the peace of mind.

[Alfa_alchemist]

Well guys, the alfa dealer has finished the inspection of the car yesterday. There were no major mechanical issues with the car.

These are all of the issues found in the report:
-front and back brake pads worn out (need replacing)
-front and back tyres worn out (need replacing)
-windscreen wiper worn out (needs replacing)
-engine knocking noise present, probably caused by tensioner/variator (not critical)
-some oil deposit underneath the gearbox cover (not critical)
-gearknob loose (needs tightening)
-power windows on both back doors not operating (switch failure)
-some minor body paint scratches

I have decided to put the deposit on the car after the seller has promised to fix all of the things outlined in the report (new tyres, pads, variator, etc) and also give me a one year warranty on the car.

Now Anth73, I agree with you that when chosing the used car the best thing to do is to buy the one thats in the best condition with the lowest kays and full service records. But there is always the issue of price.
I have managed to negotiate down the price of the alfa to $14,000 (remember, this is a 2003, new design 156 JTS selespeed with only 55k) and although this car is far from perfect condition, I stil think its a good value for the money. When I was in the alfa dealership they had this same model for sale in their used car lot (2003 JTS, manual with 45k in perfect condition) and the price? -$24,999.

I always loved the newly designed 156's and with my limited budget, this was the best way of getting it, and I know this was probably a purchase made by the heart and not the brain but aren't all alfa purchases like that
The only thing that I was a bit dissapointed with is that my car does not have the original alloys that came with the newly designed 156's (you know, the pretty ones with alot of small spokes) as the owner put on the 16" (telephone dial style) from the older series TS.

I'm picking the car up on wednesday so I'll keep you guys posted.

[Alfa_alchemist]

Yeah TurboGTV, the car seems to be mechanicaly OK as none of those are major problems. I think that I will probably change the timing belt next at 100k just to be on the safe side.

Now before I pick up the car, I wanna ask I few questions:
1) What motor oil should I use for the JTS engine? I've heard that alfa recommends using Selenia 10-60W but can I use any other 10-60W oil?

2) What are the actual servicing (oil and filters change) intervals for the JTS? Is it every 5k or 10k? Can the filters be found in the regular car-parts place?

3) Does the JTS engine run on premium unleaded only or is suitable for regular unleaded too?

thanks

[Alfa_alchemist]

Well guys, I have picked up the Alfa on wednesday so now I am a proud owner of a Alfa Romeo 156 JTS.

I didn't drive her alot in these couple of days as I was busy at work (I go to work by train) but every time I sit inside alfa and drive her to the shops I have a smile on my face . Theres just something about alfas that makes you feel good even if you are just looking at it.

Thanks to everyone that give me advice, especialy you 'TurboGTV' - you helped me alot man.

[Doug Gould]

Backing up a couple of posts.

1. Alfa changed the oil spec for to 156 a couple of years ago to the heavier 10W-60 to reduce oil consumption. Alfa recommend the fully synthetic Selena. I'd be very tempted to stick with a fully synthetic oil. I think Castrol & Pennzoil do this. I'm not sure that Mobil 1 goes this heavy. Fuchs might have it too. When in doubt check the manual. Almost certainly Alfa will allow a wider range. The important thing is the API rating (something like SM - I think its up to SM or SP). Its shown after the viscosity rating. It specifies the standard of the additive pack that is mixed with the base oil. The cheaper brands generally have additive packs that are 1 or 2 levels behind.

2. The manual says 20k intervals. I do 10k (which Alfa suggest). The golden rule is the more frequent the better. My wife's new Brera has a 30k interval! We'll do 15k for it which once again Alfa suggests.

3. My hobbyhorse; stick to 98 octane Shell, Mobil or BP. These are the only 3 that are refined in Australia. Anything else is bought from one of these 3 or on the spot market (usually from Singapore). Some older service station still have old cast iron tanks which may let in contaminants. I try and stick to the high volume sites that have the new fibreglass tanks. Direct injection engines (ie JTS) are fussy about fuel quality.

Doug