Oil consumption issue

[jimay3677]

Something is wrong with my jts. It hasn't used any oil in nearly 2000k. I don't know if I should be concerned lol.  Obviously hpr10 is a good oil.

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[redsky]

Hope it's not like my 2010 Forester, the only time it stopped using oil was when the sump was dry!

[colcol]

Your oil consumption doesn't go down in JTS's, what happens is you do a lot of city driving and the oil gets contaminated with crap and fuel and it seems the oil level stays the same, but your oil level is decreasing and the contaminate level is increasing.
The way to get over it is to take it on a good run, like an Alfa Romeo Sunday drive or a bit of a blast along the freeway, and you will burn the crap out of your oil and your oil level will drop, and when you check it, seem like the oil use is out of control.
Some oils are better at controlling oil consumption, if you are doing lots of city driving and short trips and your car isn't warming up, change the oil more regulary, like twice as often as recomended or start saving up for new camshafts, Colin.

[jimay3677]

I live in the country and travel 100k to work so am always giving it a good run

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[jimay3677]

I switched to hpr10 (10w50) at the last 5000k oil change from a 5w60 ten tenths so I'm thinking hpr10 is a pretty good oil. I picked up some castrol edge cheap so will see how that goed

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[colcol]

There are different grades of Castrol Edge, for the JTS motor use 10-60.
The city driving contaminates the oil with by products of petrol and isn't a good lubricant and the first thing to suffer is the camshafts, the lobes wear off.
I have used many brands and types of oil in the JTS and have not noticed much difference, i even used Castrol Magnatec and expecting all sorts of things to happen, but it was fine, Colin.

[jimay3677]

Longer reply not using mobile.

When I got the car it was running Castrol Magnatec 10-40 which the dealer put in, I changed over to Penrite 5w-60 and saw usage at around 1L/2000k.  I've since switched to Penrite HPR10 10w50.
After picking up the Castrol Edge on sale I checked the oil and it's still sitting at the full line, I can't remember exactly how many k's it's been but the car gets driven around 500-700k a week so it would be atleast 1500k on HPR10

[Steve S]

Yep, it was Castrol edge 10w60 - that the only spec the car has ever had...

I've used Martini 10w60 too, that was good, but there was still a little tappet noise...

The Penrites the only oil I've used that makes the engine completely quite.

I suspect its because if the higher zinc content. Possibly also because it's 100% PAO... not sure?



Matt was saying that given the flat tappet design in these engines, it's important to use an oil with a high zinc content anyway.. he uses HPR10 as youget the best of both worlds - good oil, cheap...  I think the Edge is one of those low zinc oils...? not sure..?

Zn is a very useful additive but it is not the only anti wear additive. And more Zn does not automatically mean more protection. Zn comes in different forms in order to achieve different things too. e.g. Zn maybe formulated as an antioxidant, rather than anti wear, which is common in heavy diesel engine oil. Zn formulated as a strong antioxidant has poor antiwear performance. If an oil was formulated with a poor quality base stock it will generally oxidise more easily, so could be loaded with higher levels of antioxidants to compensate.

The low Zn formulations you read about in everyday oils causing issues (or not) are mostly restricted to North America where these formulations make up the bulk of the oil on the market. The vast majority of formulations in Europe and here in Australia have always maintained conventional levels of Zn.

Edge 10w60 is a PAO oil. It has high levels of Zn, similar to HPR, similar to other A3/B4 formulations. Martini 10w60 is low Zn as it is a C3 formulation which is odd for a 10w60. I don't know any manufacturers requesting a C3 10w60. C3 maybe low Zn but it still meets the same wear performance as A3/B4. The primary reason A3/B4 formulations with high levels of Zn still exist in mainstream products to ensure long service life when used with variable quality fuels. They are also cheaper.

Alfa engines may have "flat tappets" by definition but the term really originated from old solid lifter pushrod engines with large valves, heavy springs and rocker ratios that place high pressures on the cams.  A lot of plain Jane Toyotas, Hondas, Mitsubishis etc all technically have flat tappets too but as spring pressures are low they get along on std oil just fine. I've never seen a worn cam on a Toyota.

[Steve S]

A lot of people claim Mobil oil makes their engines noisy and I must admit my Toyota did seem quite noisy when running on Mobil. I actually used a Penrite oil at my last oil change and I too immediately noticed it was a lot quieter than before with the Mobil. The problem with this sort of observation is there is nothing to compare it with; any other oil on the shelf may have had the same result too. That oil change was done well over 6 months back now and to me the engine sounds quite noisy again. Maybe it's noisy as the oil is old and needs to be changed? I do believe it has slowly got nosier as the time has gone by and that it will most likely be quieter again after the next oil change.

Given all the claims on engine noise I read about, I find it interesting that I have never seen a proper study done to conclude audible noise has any bearing on engine wear whatsoever.

[jimay3677]

Mine actually seems quieter on the edge (except for the hole in exhuast somewhere) will be going back to penrite on the next change due to $$

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[Thevak]

Good time to buy Penrite from Repco with 20% discount using major car clubs membership cards such asRACV for the month July.

[colcol]

The Penrite 'Full Zinc' full synthetic 15-60, the zinc may cause problems with the catalytic convertor, thats why they got rid of zinc years ago, as it was poisoning the convertors, having said that note of caution, i am using it my JTS, but will most likely use something else at the next oil change, Colin.

[colcol]

The biggest problem with a direct injection engine is oil dilution, that is petrol and crap getting into the oil system and petrol is a solvent, and its lubricating your engine, and with the JTS engine, the first things to go are the camshaft lobes.
No brand of oil will save you from this, i indicated that i wasn't going to use Penrite 'full zinc' at my next oil change, but i will use it on the change after that, just so those poor old cats don't get too much Zinc!
And you don't use the modern 5-30 fully synthetics in the older range of Alfa Romeo engines, just use what Alfa Romeo recommended, [which wasn't Selenia].
Just like you don't use 40-70 oil in the new range of Alfa Romeo / Fiat engines.
Lets agree on changing your oil on time and with the JTS, if its running around the city, change it at half the recommended klms, Colin.

[Steve S]

High ZDDP levels will only kill cats at a faster rate than lower Zn oils. Lower ZDDP oil will still kill a cat fast if you burn a lot of oil, so it's not a complete cure. There are ZDDP free engine oils btw.

Alfa of course recommends Selenia Racing which is a very high ZDDP oil, at least as high as Penrite HPR so Alfa don't think it's a problem for the cats, or don't care.

In Australia its hard to find a low ZDDP oil in a viscosity grade you would use in an Alfa as they generally only come in 20 and 30 multigrades.

[jimay3677]

No matter how my car is driven I always dump oil at 5-7k noway in hell would I go 15k or even 10k

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