New member looking for a 105 2000 GTV

[Tim Jobson]

Hi to all out there,

I am a new member of the WA division and I am in the process of tracking down a 105 2L GTV.
I would be delighted in hearing from any one that can help me with my search.   
I am not looking for the concourse finish job as I intent to use it as an every day or almost every day car.
My wife thinks I am crazy to buy such an old car, however, I tell her that like her some things get better with age!
I am reasonably handy with my hands so I will expect to do a bit of work to the alfa I eventually get.
Can any of the 105 experts in the club give me some advice on what to look for when purchasing a 105 GTV 2L.

I look forward to exchanging stories, hopefully good ones, in the future.

Regards
Tim Jobson

[Fast Eddie]

Welcome and good luck in your hunt Tim.

As soon as we (I) receive your application (have i already?), you will start receiving the club mag which, along with eBay, car sales sites and this forum will be a great source for your target car.

Then we want to see you at some events

Ed

[meizhak]

Hello and welcome Tim,

FYI there was a GTV in todays quokka if you havent seen it already.

Good luck

[Colin Byrne]

Couple of things to look at when purchasing a 105

Rust – Alfa Romeo's arch enemy, be wary if the car is showing rust bubbles under the paint, but be even more wary if there are none,  there are a lot of 105's out there full of bog and a poor repair is usually harder to fix than the original rust.  Standard rust spots are in front and behind both wheels, doors, under front bumper, floor foot wells and boot (both in spare wheel well and around fuel tank flange).

Accident reapirs – take a torch and check under front guards and check for cracked paint in the engine bay is this sometimes isn't repainted after an accident.  The entire boot on these cars is very weak so check for creases near the top of the rear wheel arch.

Check if the doors open and close well, the doors are pretty long and heavy so the hinges tend to wear out, can be fixed though

Just standard engine stuff, check oil and water levels look for smoke under acceleration, make sure there are no signs of oil in the water (head gasket) and check for water leaks, particularly from the water pump.

Gearbox synchros in first and second are nearly always worn.

The other thing to think about is interior,  its easy to neglect that and say you'll fix it up latter, but this can be a very expensive exercise, so purchasing a car with a good interior to begin with can save a lot of money in the long run.

Just a couple of things to think about, I'm sure other people can add heaps more

[Davidm1600]

Tim

To follow on from where Colin left off, which by the way was most comprehensive, is also suspension, especially the front but also the rear.  Again all the usual things, ball joints, tie rods, bushes. etc   If these are worn the car will be clunky when going over bumpy roads, your steering can also be affected by worn suspension and lastly typical of poorly maintained 105s they can be squeaky in the front end.  Again all of these things can be fixed, parts are readily available but to go over the front and rear suspension can cost easily $1500.  If the shock absorbers are worn, from my experience Konis are probably the best option, possibly Bilsteins (costly) either the basic red or preferably yellow (sports).  I have the yellows in my 1750 and also 124 sport. Absolutely rapt in these. 

The good news for 105 Alfas is the huge range of new (and 2nd hand) parts available.  Apart from the Alfa mag and perhaps some of the sponsors, from my knowledge in Aus (in Melbourne) there is Milano spares and the 105 factory.  Huge range including panels etc.  Vin Sharp (Pace Engineering) for engine/gearbox, suspension and exhausts plus overseas in the UK, Alfaholics, Classic Alfa, EB Spares and Highwood Motor Co  (All have websites) plus ebay including Ricambi Automobilia as well as Alfa spares places in the US.  From my dealings I usually use both Milano and Classic Alfa, as they seem to offer the best prices. 

The good thing is if you have rust, in the front cills, wheel arches etc, there are rust replacement pannels available but better to get an un-rusty 105.  Mine has all the usual problems.  The boot lid itself often is rusty on the rear edge. Also doors crack and rust around the door handle.  Headlinings often are stained and or torn, but you can buy new ones.  Headlights corrode but new ones are available, as are all rubber parts for these cars.

Hope that helps.  By the way there is a red 2000 on Ebay for sale at the moment, plus I would check out carpoint or carsales.com.au as I am sure there will be a number of 2L GTVs for sale.

Dave

[alfagtv58]

but better to get an un-rusty 105.

he he, thats a good one!

[Davidm1600]

Yeah you are not wrong, but believe me I have actually seen at least one such example, and that was in the London, Uk the home of rust !!   Richard Banks (Classic Alfa) had a series 2 1750 with less than 20,000m on the clock, it was like brand new !!

[Tim Jobson]

Thank you for those words of advice, I do appreciate the info as it will hopefully save me some heart ache.
My ultimate preference would be for a blue body colour with a tan interior however it seems that there are mostly red ones with black interiors.     Does anyone know how many 105 2Ls were imported into Aust and what colours they came in?
It is good to know that there are many suppliers to choose from especially body parts as I have had some experience in replacing panels when I restored and converted to RHD a 1989 Fiat spider 2000 some years ago.
Are the 105 panel all welded or are any of them bolt on?

Regards TCJ

[Davidm1600]

Hi Tim

Hopefully none of the advice given scares you off, since if you can get a really good one, I am certain you will love it. The handling is sublime, the gearbox if in excellent condition is something really special and the 2L engine has so much torque.  I use to have a 2L Berlina, which had a great gearbox and engine. Pity about the body!!  Dark blue with the tan interior is an excellent choice. Its actually the colour I intend for my Super.

As to the colours they came in to Aus. Off the top of my head, white, red, burgandy, silver, pine green, metallic green, navy blue, Le Mans blue (a bit lighter than cobalt blue), tan, beige, metallic dark blue. That is what I can recall.  There is a listing for the correct Alfa paint colours, am sure you can find it by googling it or perhaps someone else can provide the link.

Unlike the Fiat spider, the only panels whic effectively are bolt on, on the 105 are the doors, bootlid, bonnet and panel under the windscreen.  I have seen pictures of 105s being restored in the UK where they have unfixed the welds on the front valance, guards, rear guards and rear valance.  Major work.  However, if you check out either Alfaholics or Classic alfa's websites you can see the comprehensive listing of new panels, let alone anything else you might need to restore a 105 GTV. 

Goodluck with the search.  Dave

[Pete Y]

The other thing to think about is interior,  its easy to neglect that and say you'll fix it up latter, but this can be a very expensive exercise, so purchasing a car with a good interior to begin with can save a lot of money in the long run.

Having said that, the 2000 GTV is the one you'd want if the interior was the only problem - UK parts sellers have lots of NOS and repro 2000 seat covers and bits, and the 2000 dashboards and gauge housings are both less delicate and easier to find than 1750 ones.

As for colours.. On your 2000, the following graphic I've made up is pretty close to it. There might be more, and other combinations MAY be original, but these are dead certs. Trying to record Alfa history on these things is notoriously difficult.

[Pete Y]

metallic green

Correct. I left one off.

Verde Oliva Metallizzato - Olive Green Metallic. Usually seen with the Pigskin brown interior.
I don't know about your claims of a dark metallic blue and a beige and tan however.. Piper Yellow is pretty washed out?

The handling is sublime

Umm... Let's not get too misty eyed here. They're fun certainly, and they're very well balanced, and they're excellently set up in stock configuration. Also, the steering is wonderful to use and perfectly weighted. But I'd stop short of sublime - the live rear axle can hop about a bit, and even in an LSD equipped 2000, it'll pay you to be pretty careful when the rain hits.

Pity about the body!! [Berlina]

Now now. We all know there's $ in GTVs, but nothing slices through the air like a Bertone Berlina... Plus, you can fit four people in it, their luggage and more in the boot, then head off at 100mph, drive for 3 hours and get out feeling fresh as a daisy. 3 hours in the GTV and you need a Chiro.

[Tim Jobson]

Thanks guys for the moral support, I think I will need it after just looking over the 2L GTV that was in the local Quokka paper.
The car was a 73 white that looked as if it had not been touched from original, still had original service book and manual.   Door seals trim and seats all look original, now rock hard.     I went over the body with a magnet and did not find any bog however it looks like someone had slaped a coat of white over the original paint that can still be seen in the engine bay.   This paint is cracked over the wheel arches and numerous other areas.   Rust was cut out bottom of door near door hing and left foot well, there is visible rust under front bumper near radiator support and in boot around fuel tank and below the bottom of left rear light.
To me it looks like it would be a full restoration job, so does anyone have a ballpark figure on what it would cost to: replace door and window seals, Headliner, carpets, repaint body, overhaul gearbox, diff, brakes and engine and redo all suspension bits!!

One thing that was odd was it had door protection strips running along the sides, was this an original fit to all 105s?  It was an aust delivered vehicle so it was not a USA job.

I loved the paint chart of the original colours, interesting that red ones only came with black interiors.

regards TCJ

[Colin Byrne]

To me it looks like it would be a full restoration job, so does anyone have a ballpark figure on what it would cost to: replace door and window seals, Headliner, carpets, repaint body, overhaul gearbox, diff, brakes and engine and redo all suspension bits!!

Alot!!
seriously that is going to be a big project
if you want a really quick idea of prices of new parts check out alfaholics or classic alfa they both have online prices for all those bits, i'm not saying you have to get it from there but it will give you an idea of price,
and as far as body work goes check out this thread
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,68/topic,1412.0/

i'd think very carefully about starting a project like that (Well actually i probably wouldn't!!), what's the asking price?

[pep105]

Hi Tim

Yeah would cost heaps and it depends could be 20 K, 30K, 40k...............
Whats your price range ?

Would you consider getting a more expensive better condition car that has one or more of those items in good nick (body, engine, etc)

Dont think the side mouldings were standard best to take em off and launch them

[Pete Y]

I loved the paint chart of the original colours, interesting that red ones only came with black interiors.

No worries. Its also useful to know because red is the most common colour change (resale Red!), and so if you go and inspect a red GTV with brown interior, you know the owner is lying when he tells you it always has been red. Then you might want to wonder what else he's lying about, including that freshly rebuilt engine 

As for a whole resto of a 105. You don't want to think about it. If you're keen to have a really good one, and it seems that you are, I would just wait for a better car to come around. I wouldn't spend less than 10-12K on a 105 coupe now. When I bought mine it was a very nice runner at only 9K, but the market seems to have gone a little mad for these cars.