V6 engine removal and alternator removal

[cc]

Hi Guys
Am going to remove and overhaul the alternator and the front sway bar bushes and probably the bar if its worn in its bushes.
To do this the front of the car will be jacked up and put on stands while the rear of the car sits on the ground and pivots.
Im going to lower the engine enough to R & R the alternator. I dont actually want to fully remove the engine.
I may have to tho.
Does anyone know how high the front of the car has to be lifted for the engine to be then moved forward under the front steel member in front of the radiator joining the front engine bearer rails?
I ve read a couple of UK forums that have done an engine R & R.

cheers

[cc]

this must be one of the forums slow moving posts.
After some internet reading; the story so far.
The cars front is on stands so the engine is about 35cm off the ground.
Taken the bumper off, inner plastic wheel well liners. Dont know why I did both sides. Removed the top steel member the bonnet release is attached to.
Removed the exhaust pipes back to the cat. converter.
Learnings!
The plastic trims under the passenger doors have a hidden retainer that I cant find the access to.
The nuts retaining  the exhaust manifold studs to the exhaust pipe came off ok, apart from one. The thread is destroyed and the end of the studs thread is destroyed.
The drivers side of the engine will pivot forward once the engine mount is unbolted; there are power steering pipes that will probably restrict the engine pivoting forward; to move...
Sometime in the cars previous life the power steering pipe under the radiator was cracked. The crack cut out and some flexible hose clamped in.... Wreckers replacement cost $50; to get.
There are v fine metal swarf on flat ledges next to the timing belt! Dating from after I replaced the Timing belt.
Theres a coolant leak near the water pump!
cheers

[Mick A]

I have no idea why you are moving the engine.

All you need to do is remove the sub frame and you have easy access to the alternator and also to do the sway bar bushes.

Mick

[cc]

Hi Mick
Moving the engine has been the only method Ive found on the web, and in the elearn alfa electronic manual on how to access the alternator.
If removing the sub frame is better, I would appreciate a 'how to' on removing the sub frame.
cheers CC

[cc]

giving it a go per Micks method of dropping the sub frame.Am at this stage going to keep the lower wishbones attached to the sub frame and hopefully will be able to lower the sub frame low enough to remove the alternator.
Am not removing the wishbones at this stage as to split the ball joint means taking off the dust cover to the disc and to to do that means taking the caliper off!!!
Have been able to loosen the 3 rear rigid engine mount bolts by using a long torque wrench as a lever on the bolts and a 75mm socket extender on the end of the torque wrench. Important to have the sump of the car +30cm off the ground.To get the leverage on the wrench. Make  sure when the socket is on  centre of the 3 loosen it slightly only. Then remove with a 24mm ring spanner. What can happen if the socket only is used on the centre bolt, it catches on a flange and being unable to move out with the bolt unscrewing. It will partially strip the bolt hole!!! before you realize why its getting hard to turn... will try and clean it with a tap.

[cc]

Have lowered the sub frame, unbolted the the lower wishbones from it. So cant completely remove it from the car as its held in the position by the wishbones which are still bolted via theyre ball joints to the suspension. Havent split the ball joints as am hoping its easier to re attach everything this way.. and dont want to damage rubber bellows on ball joint..

Next challenge is there isnt enough gap to remove the alternator due to drive shaft and power steering pipes in the way...
Elearn says to remove rear exhaust manifold.... but has a typo and explains removing the front manifold twice!

So anyone out there ever removed t he rear exhaust manifold.?
Am thinking if you have a V6 drop the engine out do everyhing on it, put it back.

[Cool Jesus]

CC, sorry for the lack of insight from the forum. Must say I haven't been around lately and noticed there has been a lull on input from members to threads. I like to think that members do see the posts, the ones that do perhaps haven't an answer so remain silent other than possibly give some encouragement.

I've removed a V6 over the top, so can't add to removal from beneath. I do agree with Mick that alternator work shouldn't require engine removal, what a PITA job that would be, even for italian design. I've managed alternator work via removal of subframe and intack manifold, but imagine room would be restricted from above with the V6. I'll have a better, closer look at my docs and see if I can suggest a plan of attack. Otherwise you seem to be handling yourself OK.

One point that comes to mind re the wishbones, Can you not unbolt them from the subframe? save splitting the ball joints Also unbolt the axle from the motor/diff for lowering purposes?

[cc]

Hi Jesus
Have already  removed the wishbones from the sub frame but because of the upright part of the sub frame on both sides of the sub frame (its like a finger, is in line with the axles) that bolts to the front engine 'rails' of the monocoque theres an interference that prevents the sub frame from being moved away from under the vehicle. Theres seems space enough to get the alternator out once the rear exhaust manifolds out!
The 2 largest bolts attaching the sub frame were heavily corroded on the unthreaded shaft. Corrosion not visible unless the bolts are removed.
Will posts some pics tomorrow.
cheers
am trying avoid removing the axle.

[bazzbazz]

This works on the 2.0 156s, but I will not lie, have no idea if it will work on the V6 support the engine from above with crossed beams of timber and ratchet straps around the engine or tied to the appropriate points.

Undo the top reaction mount rod, the rear mount and as few bolts as possible from the gearbox mounting frame. then undo the right mount, place a bottle jack between the engine and firewall and jack the engine forward CAREFULLY, support with trolley jack if you have one as well.

With the 2.0 engines this allows more than enough room to get to the back of the engine, Alternator, oil filter ect ect.

Now I have never done it this way with a V6 as the 2.0 has a different mounting system for the gearbox and its like the V6 RH side mount. You just loosen this one on the 2.0s and it allows the whole assembly to pivot around its axis, the V6 you have to remove the sub plate assembly.

Have a look and see if my idea will work . . . WITHOUT KILLING YOU in the process.

Baz

[Cool Jesus]

CC, have you come across this little How To?

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-andamp-gt/1001961-how-to-remove-the-alternator-from-top-156-v6-cf2.html

Helps if you join that forum to view the pics...

[Cool Jesus]

Here's another

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-andamp-gt/211728-removing-v6-alternator.html

[cc]

Hi Guys
Thanks for the info. Research reading done so far includes your points. Am not looking forward to removing the rear exhaust manifold. Hope I dont damage a stud... Am not going to attempt to try the alternative method of pivoting the engine forward.  Just sounds too dangerous/risky.
All this to remove the alternator!

[Mick A]

I might be contributing this info a little late here, but have you checked if the alt has a removable regulator? If so you may not actually have to remove the alternator, just replace the reg. The Bosch ones are usually removable.

Another bit of useful info, if your battery light stays on it'll be the regulator, but if you get no battery light on the dash at all then it is a diode in the alternator and requires removal and repair.

Cheers.

Mick.

[cc]

ah! sweet release! its out :  )  left the rear exhaust manifold in place and undid the drivers side drive shaft at the inboard side. With the sub frame dropped, there is room to pull it out thru the wheel well. Slip rings are grooved and the brushes about 5mm in length.
Thanks Craig for the tip re battery light not  on ,but still with elec issues; being a diode issue as this is what the car has...
Spoke to an auto elec and am waiting for a quote for regulator, slip ring and diodes. It looks as if it may be cheaper to put a new one in....
pics and a detailed explanation to follow.

ps the 6 bolts on the drive shaft were all loose!! and took hardly any torque when being removed!! 

[cc]

ok.. found an auto electrician keen and cost competitive to do the slip ring, regulator-brushes and bearings: coopers plains auto electrical 3275 2166 in Brisbane, recommended by Alfamotive. Hopefully the diodes are ok..
Most sparkies dont want to do it and would rather sell a replacement..
An option was to replace with a wreckers part. Interestingly They're compatible up to 2005. So a low km one might be out there..
now to find the coolant leak..

The Alfa part no is 60 655 296 for the Alternator, made in GB, Great Britain?
The regulator no 1 197 311 550 also made in GB.
The pic of the slip ring is a bit out of focus! the black groove is the asbuilt space between the 2 copper bands. Note the deep  1mm groove on the copper surface closest to the body of the alternator. The outer Copper band didnt show as much wear and the wear on the length of the protuding brushes was also variable.