GTV wiring/relays advice

[poohbah]

Folks, my GTV suffers from what I gather seems to be a fairly typical problem with the electrics.

Even though I recently had the alternator rebuilt, the electrics still seem to be really weak - battery light comes on when I put her in reverse, and at night with the headlights on, you can see the battery light showing (really dim glow, but visible). And when I indicate at night, battery light flicks on in unison, and at times will lead the stereo to cut out. Worse, if it is raining and night time, stereo won't work at all if I have lights and wipers on.

I just cleaned up a bunch of the connections/relays under the bonnet, and it seems to have resulted in a mild improvement (battery light no longer glows when I put her in reverse), but stereo still cuts out with lights and wipers on.

Any useful suggestions would be welcomed. I have heard suggestions that separate relays should be installed for the ignition, headlights etc - but I am unsure what is connected to what. I have a workshop manual but can't decipher the wiring diagrams.

Anyway, as I feel like I am fiddling in the dark, I am hoping someone could at least help me identify what the relays and connections circled in the pics are for. The only ones I have not yet pulled off and cleaned are all on the passenger side - the two under the lip of the main bulkhead (pics 007 and 008) and the long barrel shaped connection near the windscreen washer reservoir (RHS of pic 006)

[poohbah]

I should add I don't plan to install any relays myself - I will get an auto-electrician to do it, But would be good to know what is connected to what.

[tpalfa]

First picture looks like someone has already installed headlight relays - that wiring is not standard.

Putting a relay on the ignition switch will help to solve a lot of problems. You can search on here or on www.alfabb.com to find instructions but a good auto electrician should be able to work it out (and charge a lot).

[poohbah]

Thanks tp. I thought that too about the relays in top pic. The ones on left seem to be wired into the headlight loom, and I think the one in the middle may be to the aircon compressor (mine has a more compact version compared with original - though still no good - which is why battery has been relocated to the boot).

I am presuming the one in the third pic is for the wiper motor.

But the one in far left of the last pic is definitely non-original and I have no idea what it is wired to. The one on right of the same pic seems to be wired to the coil.

[Alfapride]

Find out how many amps the new alternator is if it's stock 50amp it's not strong enough 80amp is a good upgrade

Suggest relays for the ignition starter motor and head lights

Clean up all your ground points and check for any bad terminals that are loose and if so replace them

That should make a huge difference!


Good luck!

[poohbah]

Thanks Alfapride.

I presume my alternator is 50amp - I just had the existing one overhauled,which I presume is the original.

I will do all the ground points as suggested. I have already noticed some improvement just from cleaning the handful of connections I got to on the weekend.

But it certainly seems a separate relay for ignition is a must do.

[alanm]

I have just replaced the alternator in my 75 so I have a couple of insights here – though I hasten to add, I am far from expert.

Alternators for Alfettas (Nord) and the 75 TS/V6 are interchangeable – the body of the alternator and bracketing is common.
Alfettas as far as I could ascertain used an alternator which produced 50/55amps.
This was probably acceptable given the car had few electric devices like thematic fan (?), power windows and mirrors.
The 75 alternator probably produced 65 amps – a small step up to cope (or NOT cope) with the extra electrics.

I had a local, Alfa knowledgable, auto elec build me a 85 amp alternator in the body of a 55 amp Alfetta alternator.
This seems to work well, and definitely translates to stonger headlines, faster wiper blades etc.
Unfortunately as I am Melbourne this does not help you much but I am sure there will be some good resources in WA.

I guess you should start by checking the performance of your alternator to see if it is as good as it can be or not.
There are very specific performance parameters for alternators at idle, 2000/3000 rpm, under 'load' not under load.
A cheap multimeter and a quick Google might give you a few more insights.

I hope this helps.
Al

[poohbah]

Thanks Alan, all good advice.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Someone has gone a little relay crazy already in that car.....

2nd pic is just the resistor for the heater fan inside the car, 3rd pic is indeed the plug for the windscreen wiper motor.

Last pic, I'd take a guess by its location that the one on the left has been added for the starter motor solenoid, a good modification.  One on the right? Who knows, maybe for the coil, maybe not. Helpful that they've wired it all in black, by the looks of it.

The tricky one is the first pic.  The thing on the right is just a terminal block that's presumably been added to make it easier to grab power for the relays.  A guess would say the big fat wire going to that likely comes from the starter motor, terminal box on the firewall if that model had it (can't remember now) or maybe all the way from the battery.  Why I don't know, given the alternator cable runs straight past there and comes from the same place in the end.  The group of 3 relays, looks likely from the picture that at least the two black ones are for the headlights, maybe all 3 - can't really see where the wires go.  Cables supplying the relays seem undersized for the job to me though.  The one relay by itself is a bit of a mystery, other than it takes power from the terminal block, and appears to send it through to the group of 3 relays for some reason.  Maybe it comes on only with the ignition, to stop the headlights being left on?  Only speculation.

If you're taking it to an auto elec, I hope you have a real friendly one, or you're prepared for a big bill - that car could be potentially be a nightmare just to work out what has been hacked out, and where.  I will note that its pretty normal for the battery light to glow faintly in a GTV, and perhaps if the stereo cutting out is the only issue bothering you (battery doesn't go flat when using lights/wipers, etc), maybe simply finding a better place to grab power for the radio is a much cheaper and easier solution...

[poohbah]

Cheers J&H - you have really helped.

Back when I bought the car, my Alfa mechanic did comment that the wiring for the lights was odd.

Which is now no great surprise given what I have learned over the last year about the dubious quality of the DIY work done by the previous owner. I will do what I can as far as cleaning everything up to see what improvement I get from that, and will ask for a professional opinion next time its in the workshop. To date it has always started without problem, and battery generally doesn't seem to be discharging when it should be charging, so reconfiguring the stereo connection might be the simplest fix.

[marktim]

Hey l have exactly the same problems with mine except for the stereo problem, the p/o had the alternator rebuilt but it can't handle two electric fans plus whatever else is on, let me know how you go if you use an auto lecky maybe tell him you want a good price as you may have another alfa for him to do, good luck, cheers.

[colcol]

On the 33, i put a relay on the radio, as it would cut out when pulling up at the lights or putting on the wipers or headlights or.....you get the picture, araldited it the relay onto the back of the radio, so it slides in and out with the radio, cured the annoying problem.
Terminals on relay were as follows,
30 direct to battery,
85 earth,
87 to radio,
86 to ignition switch,
put some sort of fusible link or fuse on the # 30 wire coming from the battery.
Should have done it years ago, Colin.

[poohbah]

Thanks all, your input is greatly appreciated.

Marktim, I've always used Cilibertis in Osborne Park whenever my Alfas needed work done, so I plan to ask them about the wiring next time. Will let you know the diagnosis when I get it, but may be a while. My next planned maintenance spend is scheduled service and cambelt change on my 156.

Colin, I like the sound of your simple fix, so will investigate that further in the meantime.

[GTVeloce]

Ok, until the untimely demise of my GTV, I was able to run EVERYTHING at once without a glowing battery and I was only using the standard 65amp TS amp. And by everything I mean headlights, hi beam (together), hazard lights, full blower fan, AC, heated rear screen, stereo with two amps and a sub, wipers, rear fog light and probably something else!

The way I managed this was multi faceted.
1. A good battery
2. New battery terminals and a new 2ga battery earth (battery was in the boot) but kept the original pwr cable from the battery to starter
3. New and larger cables from starter to alternator and two new junction boxes (one on either side of the engine bay)
4. A relay for the ignition
5. A relay for the starter
6. 4 relays for the headlights (probably over kill but at least if one fails you still have the other side)
7. A new, much larger wire running from the driver's side junction box to the fusebox
8. A new, larger engine to chassis wire
9. Fusebox removed, disconnected, cleaned and reconnected with a few improvements made on the way!
10. A new relay for the heated rear screen using power direct from the boot mounted battery

There were a few other changes but they were for specific modifications. Of those, I would say 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9 were essential. If your battery terminals are good skip 2. In Perth you never need 10! And I don't know how much 8 helped but it was easy and was never going to be an issue. In the end, I had modern car levels of reliability and drivability for not much money.

I might add, when I started this project a few years ago I didn't even know what a relay did so I learnt as I went. It wasn't that hard with a bit of study on the net and forums. My advice though would be plan it all out first, including distances and wire gauges before you go to Jaycar or similar. It will be much cheaper in the long run.

[poohbah]

Thanks Julian, a nice and clear plan there!

Very encouraging to hear you learned as you went, gives me hope.