147 GTA Milkshake Maker

[Smaan]

Hi All,
Well the GTA decided to turn it's oil into a caramel milkshake, ie mixed with water....  Pretty disappointed after the car has only done 85,000 k's and has been treated with a lot of care and respect.

I'm now thinking I'll remove the engine and perform a bunch of other work at the same time.

The question I have is, does anyone have experience with "lifting" the engine out rather than dropping it out as per the manual?  Given my working space the only option I have is to lift it out.

Also any other thoughts regarding the possible points of Mixing ?  Taking bets on Cylinder liners OR Head gaskets ?

[Mick A]

Hey Simon,

Lowering it out is the way we always do it. But when you have a hoist this is easy, not so much without.

Before you go pulling the heads off, maybe consider the heat exchanger on the oil filter housing. I have replaced these before. Usually it is a case of oil in the water however, not the other way around, but you never know...

Just a thought anyway.

Mick.

[Smaan]

Thanks Mick,  I need to do some diagnostics before I start the tear down to get more of an idea of where the problem is.  I haven't even had time to check the plugs yet.
From what I can tell the 147 has an oil to air cooler located on the LHS in front of the gearbox.  I can't see a water to oil heat exchanger on the back of the block.

[Mick A]

The heat exchanger is part of the housing that the oil filter screws onto. It is an absolute nightmare to replace.
Ask me how I know...

[bazzbazz]

Mick, remember its a 3.2 V6, not a 2.5 V6.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if my very foggy memory is correct the 2.5 has a water cooled heat exchanger that the oil filter fits to with in and out cooling pipes from the engines water cooling system, just like the 4 cylinder engines, so oil and water can cross contaminate.

But the 3.2 in the GTA has the air cooled Oil heat exchanger, with oil pipes going to the air cooled oil radiator at the front behind the bumper. Thus oil/water contamination cannot happen here.

PLEASE, Pick me up if I am wrong.

But Mick is 100% correct in the point that replacing the heat exchanger on either engines is a horses ass with engine in situ!

Baz

P.S. If I were you, I wouldn't even think about turning the engine over till you pull the plugs, check further, if water can get in the oil, it can also get in the cylinders! The last thing you want is trying to turn her over with water in the cylinders and end up with hydro locking and a bent con-rod or stuffed big end bearings. Was just a last minute thought.

[Mick A]

I should take my own advice sometimes and think a bit more before I post something! You are 100% correct there isn't one on the 3.2 GTA Baz, now I think more I can actually visualise the back of the block and there's no exchanger and also no water piping back there like on a 2.5 where the pipe runs across the back of the cam cover. I remember now!

My apologies guys for giving shit advice! I feel like a dick!

Mick.

[Smaan]

Mick, remember its a 3.2 V6, not a 2.5 V6.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if my very foggy memory is correct the 2.5 has a water cooled heat exchanger that the oil filter fits to with in and out cooling pipes from the engines water cooling system, just like the 4 cylinder engines, so oil and water can cross contaminate.

But the 3.2 in the GTA has the air cooled Oil heat exchanger, with oil pipes going to the air cooled oil radiator at the front behind the bumper. Thus oil/water contamination cannot happen here.

PLEASE, Pick me up if I am wrong.

But Mick is 100% correct in the point that replacing the heat exchanger on either engines is a horses ass with engine in situ!

Baz

P.S. If I were you, I wouldn't even think about turning the engine over till you pull the plugs, check further, if water can get in the oil, it can also get in the cylinders! The last thing you want is trying to turn her over with water in the cylinders and end up with hydro locking and a bent con-rod or stuffed big end bearings. Was just a last minute thought.

Thanks Bazz,
I agree re not turning it over. 
I should be able to get plugs out and sump off tonight.
Hopefully that will reveal a bit more.

[Smaan]

Does anyone know of a good high temp option for the wiring harness split tubing, the black flexible stuff?

All the split tubing to the coils is disintegrating.....

[bazzbazz]

Just one little thought, how bad is the oil emulsion?, just a little or a lot? Are you referring to just some caramel around the oil filler area or just an oily slick in the coolant reservoir tank?

When you pull the plugs and drain the oil if there is no noticeable water in the cylinders and the oil drained does not appear to be water contaminated you may just be suffering from lose head bolts.

I know of instances where the head bolts in the 2.5 V6 have lost a little tension allowing minute water ingress, giving some caramel just around the filler cap, or usually an oily slick in the coolant reservoir tank. If you re-torque the heads and find any noticeable movement in any of the head bolts you may very well save yourself a "heads off job"

Just a thought, nothing more.

Due to ill health, this will be my last post on here for a while . . . . . so have fun . . . . .don't lose your minds keeping them running . . . . .and drive the bloody things the way they were meant to be driven!   

Punching Out

Baz

[Smaan]

Thanks Baz,
That could be a possibility....  There is no oil in the water and the emulsion in the oil is not massive.  Spark plugs look pretty good.
BUT there is a lot of water missing !!!  There was only about a litre or so left in the radiator.  So there is a lot of water not accounted for....

Thanks for your advice Baz.  Take care.

[Smaan]

So after a fairly lengthy teardown process the cause of the milkshake has been found....
Head gaskets on both banks have let go !!!!