2000 156 TS - centre muffler broken

[MattK]

Hi all - long time lurker here. I recently bought a 2000 156 TS manual, which I'm loving, except for the clattering rattling centre muffler which is clearly broken. Yesterday I had a loss of power going up a hill and I reckon the exhaust flow was restricted, so I need it fixed. I've been getting a lot of "well, the standard exhaust kit is very expensive" advice and I wondered, what's the thinking on aftermarket stuff, can I just replace it with a pipe without waking up the neighbourhood, and what should I be paying?
I'm in Hobart so any recommendations for a place to take it would be fantastic too. Thanks all.
Cheers,
Matthew.

[Citroënbender]

G'day, are you sure it's not the cat(s) failing?

[MattK]

Thanks for your reply. It basically sounds like a handful of bolts in a large can being shaken around, and it comes and goes with the rev range and the angle the car is at (uphill vs downhill, for example). It seems certain that there are pieces of loose whatever rattling around inside, and so I would guess the cat isn't working as a result. Is it possible for the cat to fail but not need a muffler replacement? Would there be a difference?

[Citroënbender]

I'm assuming that it has the two barrel-like precats under a heat shield at the front of the motor, then a flex coupling to flange fitting and a flattened oval catalytic converter. Then from another flange coupling, a small central muffler and eventually a larger rear muffler.

Is this correct?

If so, you can pop off the secondary cat and give it a shake. The lambda sensor remains attached unless you disengage it from all its clips. But there should be sufficient indication of whether the converter is giving up.

[bazzbazz]

CB, the 2000 156 TS has a different setup to the 147 & 156 JTS that you are describing.

It has only one Cat and one Lambda (Oxygen) sensor.

The Cat is located after the flexible coupling with the Lambda sensor in front of the CAT.

Matt, by what you have described the Cat has broken up within the casing, you can remove the Cat Housing and do one of 2 things -

A/ Empty the broken pieces out and using a suitable long pole/crow bar knock the rest of the failed Cat out of the housing & refit.
B/ Replace it with a straight through pipe.

But be aware both contravene ADR & Emissions regulations and we would never condone such actions on here . . .     

Baz

[MattK]

Interesting insights - thanks! However, since I lack ramps or a hoist and my back is not in its best shape, I kind of doubt I should be tinkering with a system I'm unfamiliar with. Am I more or less guaranteed a hefty price tag if I take it to an exhaust shop?
Probably the most adventurous things I've done are replacing the crank sensor on a 147 TS, and the cam cover gasket on an old 116 GTV 2.0. Plus basic things like cleaning connections, AFM seals, replacing relays etc. I have basic mechanical sense but not a lot of experience with serious DIY.

[johnl]

CB, the 2000 156 TS has a different setup to the 147 & 156 JTS that you are describing.

It has only one Cat and one Lambda (Oxygen) sensor.

My understanding is that the 156 TS exhaust is better than the 147 TS because it is sans the 147s two flow choking pre-cats, and this gave the room needed for Alfa to fit the 156 with a better header having longer primary pipes (giving better mid range more than better outright power, though I think it has that too).

I had an annoying intermitent exhaust rattle / buzz that I failed to find any external reason for, so was suspecting an internal cat disintegration in process (which I did my best to ignore...). Some time later......I found the actual culprit, a broken weld attaching (or not...) a metal heat shield onto the exhaust pipe where it passes beneath the engine. Tied it down tightly with some coat hanger wire, fixed!

Regards,
John.

[philpot]

The CF2/Euro2 emission reg (up to November 2000) 156 TS has just the one cat, after the one and only lambda probe.

Unlike the CF3/Euro3 version of the TS in the 147, which like the 156 JTS has pre-cats, multiple lambda probes.

The plus of the CF2/Euro2 is that the replacement of the cat; coring of the cat, or removal and replacement with a straight through pipe will not (negatively) affect the engines control parameters or settings. Or throw up warning lights!

Natch , the reading at the end of the exhaust pipe won't be as per OE emission specs though ...

Hi John, yes had the same metal bracket (part 4 in the eper diagram)about an inch wide at the first flange of the exhaust manifold crack also. Googled the buzz it made at just on 3000rpm and lo and behold it's very common!  Got my mech to weld it up.

Had just fitted a CSC rear muffler to try and give the 156 a bit of a an exhaust tone, compared to my three 33's it's way too quiet!

This is a good, quick link to what we're on about

http://www.ebspares.co.uk/alfa156/exhaust16_alfa156.cfm

[Citroënbender]

Hi Matt,

From memory Duk spent a while in Hobart, he seemed to know Weatherhead and a few other choice contacts - maybe send him a message to see if there's someone he'd endorse.

[MattK]

Wonderful help thanks guys.
I presume replacement with a straight pipe would not be legal? Is ordering one of those replacement cats a viable option? are they advisable as a wrecker part, or usually better to go with a new one?
And last question - are 3rd party options any cheaper and will they affect performance too much? It's a nice car to drive when it's working!

[philpot]

hi matt,

It's all up to you really. I do note that the pipe eb spares is selling looks like they're a generic 400cm ceramic core catalytic converter. The factory, standard ones you (we) have on our twin-sparks are much bigger cylindrical units.  Any good exhaust shop can remove that section, cut out the old converter and replace with a new correct capacity Euro2 ceramic catatlytic converter and suitable 2" pipe to place it in the correct spot. ie:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-2-50-8MM-UNIVERSAL-EURO-II-CERAMIC-CORE-400-CELL/272555641006?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

or Magnaflow ...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Magnaflow-High-Flow-2-Inch-Catalytic-Converter-Stainless-Steel-Body-91004-New/170406725933?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

It's all pretty straightforward stuff for a good exhaust shop, and would be way cheaper than trying to get a new OE, Original One.   Honestly, in this instance, in my opinion, I don't think going the EB option is cost effective. Especially as there's a 30 GBP 'fee' that only gets refunded when you return your old catalytic converter. ie: your cost to post the old one back?  Seems they're either re-using the existing piping and doing what I've just mentioned above? Or reclaiming the precious metals in the old cat?

Second hand from a wreckers?  Mmmm... Even it it don't rattle, it may be about to in the next 10km/1000km... or may be 'blocked'   Or it may be okay?  You won't know till you've gone to all the trouble of removal and refitting ...  If you don't feel comfortable D I Y 'ing  I'd just get  a couple of quotes from a recommended exhaust shop in the town you are. Then it's been done properly and you don't have to worry about it !

[MattK]

Thanks again - fantastic advice and community spirit here.
If anyone wants to sell me the handbrake button from a spares car drop me a PM too!

[bonno]

Hi MattK                                             Sorry for coming in late but had other pressing matters.
Had to replace the catalytic converter on my 2000 156 TS about 8 years back that had travelled @ 250,000kms. It was replaced by a local muffler specialist who supplied and fitted a suitable aftermarket unit by cutting out the old one and MIG welding the new unit at a total all up cost of $250.  Suggest you give a local muffler specialist a call and ask for a quote. A quick search on the net in the Hobart region has identified several able to provide this service.
cheers
bonno

[MattK]

Sounds great - and now that I know I'm asking for a 2" pipe, 400 core Euro2 ceramic cat, I won't sound like a bunny when I'm giving them a call. The ballpark price is extremely helpful thanks. It has 177k on the clock, by the way, and is otherwise in great shape.

[warsch]

Alternatively, you can have aftermarket cat + muffler for around $250 delivered.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2848-CATAYLYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-TYPE-APPROVED-FOR-ALFA-ROMEO-156-2-0-1997-2000/161883900501?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649