Another one - 1750 TBi overheat

[MattK]

Cold weather down here in Tas, but I have been noticing the engine fan running after shutdown for the last week or so. All short trips, 20 minutes driving max, cold weather. Every time I've remembered to look at the temp gauge it looked fine. Then tonight, I got an "overheat, shut off engine" notice and the gauge was right up in the red. I was 3 min from home so I limped it back, but on pulling up I heard the coolant bubbling / boiling.
The engine is a 2011 1750 TBi (the turbo petrol), car is a 159 Ti sedan. I recently topped up the oil with the synthetic recommended in the other thread.
Looking at the header tank it's between MIN and MAX - I topped it up with a splash of demineralised water a little while ago because I didn't know what coolant was in it and didn't want to mix additives. The coolant is red in colour.
So - question time:
- is this a stuck thermostat, broken water pump, can't diagnose?
- did I do any harm adding demineralised water to the coolant?
- if I can get it there without overheating, is it safe to drive to the mechanic?
Thank you for any time or insight.

[Craig_m67]

Will either be

1. Water pump cactus, no circulation, overheat
2. Thermostat cactus. Runs cold. Change it for a new one. Not too difficult, 30mins.

When was the cambelt/water pump changed??

It's scenario 1 as you have overheat, not under heat (yes it's that simple)

The primary reason an engine will run hot (without coolant loss) is because it's not being circulated to the rad.
Engines (heaters) run cold when the thermostat fails open.

I've had both on my Giulietta QV
Was the water pump changed with the last cambelt change

Be aware that the water pump is part of the cambelt critical path.. so when it fails and spits the belt, so will the cams and valves, pistons, rods, bottom end....

Ask me how I know

[MattK]

Ah well, why risk it. I've called for a tow ...

[bonno]

Wise decision!!!!!!

[MattK]

As Craig observed - water pump failure. I've opted to do the cam belts at the same time since I don't think the previous owner did them or knew when they'd been done.

[kaleuclint]

Be aware that the water pump is part of the cambelt critical path.. so when it fails and spits the belt, so will the cams and valves, pistons, rods, bottom end....

So true!  Treat the belt, tensioner and water pump as a set.  And when you get the new water pump, even though it's probably the bearings that are shot (well documented issue) get a metal impeller.  Also check the very brittle plastic cover over the belts.  Chances are it's falling apart or about to. 

Whilst you are doing all this, also thoroughly check the bottom radiator hoses.  No point fixing everything else and these let go.
As Craig says: "ask me how I know...''.

The good news is you should then be right until 2025!

[MattK]

Picked it up yesterday, they had the bad water pump and the cam belt to show me - pump bearing was done (it had back and forth play while spinning) and the cam belt had been rubbing and fraying, so just as well.
They've also quoted me $1200 for a set of upper and lower control arms for the front suspension, which has some play in it at the moment. Anyone got any thoughts on urgency, and whether that's reasonable money?

[Craig_m67]

Is that to supply and fit?


https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Results&category=18&secondary=29&opts=212


I've never heard of front suspension issues with the Giulietta, anybody else?
156/147/GT.. absolutely, made of chocolate

[bonno]

Hi MattK
For the 159 1750 TBI here is the link on AUS and O/S supplier. If the quoted price includes labour, then I would say that is more than a fair price. The urgency in having it done is your call, but more than likely it will fail annual Roadworthy inspection when due.
O/S supplier
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Results&category=18&secondary=29&opts=190&term=Alfa_Romeo_159_1.75_Tbi_(200hp)_Suspension_Arms
Arese Spares Aust supplier
https://www.aresespares.com.au/browse/cn1_model/alfa-159/sort/name/display/list/master-cat/suspension/slave-cat/control-arms--.-fronte

[bazzbazz]

I've never heard of front suspension issues with the Giulietta, anybody else?

The car in question is a 159 1750TBi.

And the answer is yes, to both. The 159 do wear out the bushings in both the upper & lower front arms. The Giuliettas also wear out the bushings in the lower arms (there is no upper arm), but as they are newer in both age/design/materials they don't show up as often. (so far)

[Craig_m67]

Apologies

[MattK]

Thanks you guys - that was parts only, they also quoted $600 in labour. It seemed like a pretty huge quote.
From the linked pages it looks like the price is fair - I'm quoted $198 for the upper arm, $349 for the lower, plus GST (so $218 upper, $384 lower). That compares to $209 / $550 for TRW parts from Arese, £87 / £142 from Shop4Parts, plus shipping it works out to about $1060 so it would seem pointless to ask if I can source my own parts.
We don't have annual roadworthy here in Tas, so my concern is more about safety. What would a failure look like? or would it just degrade and cause e.g. fidgety steering and tyre wear?

[SeleMatt]

I think it would be worth getting a wheel alignment somewhere else. Don't mention anything about it and see if they come back with the same diagnosis. This way you get a second opinion and your car will be safe until you have the work done if it needs it.

[MattK]

Small update on this - I got this job done about a month ago. Asked if the quote was current and they sent a new one where the price of the upper control arms almost doubled - apologised, said the price was much higher from the supplier. I sourced a pair from Alfa Workshop in the UK much cheaper, checked that I could supply my own parts and then ordered them. Got an email to let me know that "the genuine wishbones are no longer available through Alfa so I have swapped them for the TRW version, the only difference being the packaging as TRW produce the genuine product for Alfa so the quality is exactly the same." They refunded the price difference too. The installation went fine and I was charged for 5 hours instead of the 6 quoted, so I'm pretty happy overall. Wheel bearings seem a bit noisy up front, or am I mistaking tyre noise?

[kaleuclint]

Useful info.  Out of interest, how many kms on the car??