Alfa Oz warranty/goodwill

[Gary687]

Hi folks

Just a random enquiry to see if anyone has ever had any experience - good or bad - with regards to warranty or goodwill from Alfa Oz??

My originally-Sydney based Brera has the engine warning light on and now it's in Brisbane, I ran it into Alfa in the Valley. They've diagnosed it as a faulty sensor rather than the dreaded cam chain stretching (thankfully!) and I contacted Alfa Oz re-warranty or goodwill gesture seeing as the car was barely 3 months out of warranty when the fault occurred and has a full Sydney-based Alfa service history. Alfa Oz simply won't come to the party as it's out of warranty and they have stopped replying to my e-mails (not that I bombarded them with many - only 3 in total) and Alfa Brisbane have refused to help as 'the car wasn't serviced with them' so they're not interested.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the car being 3 months out of warranty should necessarily negate a goodwill gesture on their behalf, especially when you consider a) the car was over $72,000 when new and b) I'm a mad-crazy Alfisti c) this is my 5th Alfa and d) I also currently also run a GT and not once have I asked them for anything warranty/goodwill gesture-wise in over 10 years of Alfa ownership!!

The cost of repair in total will be about $500 so not a great deal really - I'm more bristling over the principal of it all and feel a little aggrieved by this treatment and lack of loyalty to their crazy customers who remain loyal to the brand when maybe sensibilities should suggest otherwise! As I say, I could be way out of line here and maybe someone here will point that out to me but I'm interested if anyone else has ever managed to get anything out of Alfa Oz or Alfa Brisbane over and above any legal requirement??

Sorry but I needed to vent my spleen a little!!!!!!! 

Cheers

Gary

[Davidm1600]

Hey Gary

Mate I hear you, and yes indeed both most frustrating and disappointing.  No harm at all in venting your spleen.

As to your situation, while I suspect legally, (and I am not a lawyer ) my best guess is that no they are probably not obligated to help out given your car is out of warranty, and/or in the case of the Brisbane alfa service people they have had no previous involvement with you, I guess I can understand their reluctance to help out either.  Though it could have been smart business for them to have done  so, to entice a loyal customer.  I am pretty sure my current Alfa service people would try to help out if I were in your shoes, given I have been using them for the past 10 years plus.

In the end re Alfa Oz, I suspect all they really care about is selling cars, as it is a commercial enterprise. Customer loyalty to the marque is probably of relatively little interest to them beyond some lip service and marketing benefits etc.  Maybe I am wrong and doing them a dis-service.

I do know for sure if I were in a similar situation down here, the previous Alfa dealers (who also flog Porsches, Mercedes and Subaru) wouldn't have lifted a finger either.  Their level of customer service was appalling.  Hence in part they lost the distributorship.

Perhaps it could be worth phoning your original dealer/service people and advise them of your history/love of Alfas, and therefore disappointment in the lack of response of even offer of partial help in the situation and see if they can pull some strings for you.  Beyond that I suspect it will be a matter of dipping your hand into your pocket and paying.  Not much comfort, but I am not sure there is much else you can do.  Perhaps consulting with a consumer protection organisation to ask some questions to see if they have any other advice.  Good luck.  Dave

[meizhak]

Gary,

There is a section in the trade practise act outlining your rights and obligations towards warranties. It clearrly states somewhere that a product must last for an expected amount of time, meaning that you wouldnt expect say a gearbox to lunch itself after 4 years as you would historically expect it to last longer.Warranties, by law are not essential terms of contract! Check out the ACCC website there is loads of info on there.

I have been involved in warranty with another major car manufacturer in aust for many years. Alfa could well end up paying for this, and in my experience the manufacturer i was with would have lost about 70% of casses at the small claims tribunal but, it is a long and drawn out process that could take a year of your time and this is what the manufacturers are banking on that you simply put it in the too hard basket and give up.

As David said contact the selling dealer. Your origional contract was with them, so if there is to be any goowill it will probaly have to start with them.

Good luck

Meizhak

[John Hanslow]

Most people now are not aware that at the time of the Whitlam Government, an act was passed as referred to above giving an implied warranty for the useful life of the product. 

Murky waters but the result was that under law a comany/corporation selling a product must give a warranty for 1 year (statutory warranty).  The old example was going to Myers and complaining to management if your product was say 15 months old and was not functional thru no fault of your own. 

These days with cheap electronic items, mass production, it is easier to throw something away than have an argument over a $15 toaster with that does not work properly.

As for cars, that is one segment of the market that has has a bit of united front in not taking the 'useful life' factor into consideration in any manner or form.  Look at Ford and the problem with the well know problems with the brake lines.  Everyone understood (except Ford) that they were too short and fail.

.

[Gary687]

Hi folks

Thanks for your replies - very comforting to know the support is out there and the replies have definitely given me food for thought!! Anyway, after 'cooling my jets' a bit I fired off a fairly lengthy firm but fair e-mail to Alfa Oz that asked several questions and invited comment and their reply is copied and pasted below: -


"We appreciate your comments regarding your Alfa Brera.

We at Alfa Romeo Australia strive to provide the best customer service and one way we do this is through customer feedback. A file has been created on your behalf and I have noted your comments and forwarded them to the appropriate departments.

As stated in previous emails, any type of assistance would have been as a good will gesture only. Unfortunately your vehicle is outside of the manufacturers warranty and the request was denied"

Clearly either he is being obtuse and deliberately winding me up (!) or else he has completely and utterly missed the point of the whole e-mail!!!! Either way, the standardised robotic response just served to hammer home my point regarding their customer service or rather lack of!!!

I've no idea exactly where the 'appropriate departments' might be found seeing as I was under the impression I was communicating with Alfa Oz warranty department anyway but hey ho!!

I think Alfa rely so very heavily on their amazingly-loyal customers and their seemingly-blind devotion to the brand that their customer service takes somewhat of a back seat! However Davidm1750 makes the point that it could well be all manufacturer's are like this anyway and maybe Alfa are no better or worse than others brands that exist but I know if I was trying hard to change an often ill-informed opinion of the quality of a brand then I'd be doing my very best to ensure customer service and satisfaction was top of the list!

Anyway folks, thanks once again - your input has been mightily appreciated as I weigh up my next course of action!! Should there be anything of interest occur in the coming weeks and I do pursure it further you'll be the first to know!!! 

[Joe Garra]

I really think a lot of dealers don't see the value of keeping passionate Alfa owners on side. We are all just sale figures and they don't see a place for brand loyalty. Or maybe, we just have an overinflated opinion of ourselves 

[Rocco166]

I had a similar experience with my 166 when I bought it over to Perth from NSW, the car was 6 mths out of warranty and the heater core failed (again) - it had been replaced twice by the Sydney Dealer under warranty (with work sheets to prove the component failure) but despite the replacement unit only being 10 months old the local Perth AR dealer could not have cared less and refused to offer anything to offset the replacement cost. I ended up going to a specialist AR mechanic not far away from the dealer and got a much better std of service. It has certainly put me off dealing with the dealer in the future but as it's the only AR representative in Perth there is a bit of a monopoly and they work that angle for all it's worth. My next Alfa will also be coming from interstate.

[Gary687]

I can't decide whether we're all being too precious and expecting more or whether this type of service is common throughout the car industry?? I've been canvassing friends who own a variety of different cars and it seems that this type of experience is all too common irrespective of brand of vehicle so maybe it is 'the norm' unfortunately.....anyway Rocco166 has the right idea and I've got myself an awesome Alfa specialist who does all the work on both my cars - saves me thousands $$$ by comparison to Main Dealer and also I know the work is done correctly. It's just in this case I was trying my luck (and failing badly!) with a warranty claim/goodwill with Alfa themselves. I'm sure Alfa won't lose any sleep over me11 ah well, such is life....

[Gary687]

OK update for those who have even a modicum of interest!!

A while ago Alfa Brisbane examined the car and diagnosed a faulty solenoid/sensor rather than the dreaded timing chain - which was good!!

The part had to be ordered and they supplied & fitted it this very morning (after a 5-week wait for the part) at a cost of $544 and all error codes reset. Drive away from Alfa Brisbane and all is sweet in my world so I pull over to celebrate with a quick cup of splosh at the local Golden Arches and, you've guessed it, upon re-starting my baby's engine - warning light is back!!! 

I rang the dealer back to be reassured it's not the timing chain as the error code it gives relates specifically to the sensor/solenoid that has just been replaced and they are as dumbfounded as I am about it. Can't get it in now for about a month but who knows what the 'real' issue is - or why I've just spent $544 on nothing!!!! Any ideas???

I have a sneaking suspicion the cure will be more expensive than this initial $544 and if so, I'll be going to war with Alfa Oz/Alfa Italy over it given the age and mileage of the car so I've fired off another non-confrontational e-mail to ALfa Oz to add to my mythical file so we'll see if that generates any kind of repsonse!

Can't get the car examined for a few weeks now so I'll update when I can

Cheers

Gary

[Steve S]

Bad luck mate

I knew some people that bought 2 new Peugeots in 2 years. The transmission on the first car they bought needed replacing just out of warantee at a cost of something like $10,000! Peugeot initially said bugger off but they eventually agreed to pay 90% of the cost, leaving $1000 to be paid by the owners.

[Gary687]

Bloomin' hell I hope it doesn't end up being those sorts of figures! I could deal with $1,000 if I really had to but $10,000?? No thanks!!!!Either way I can't help but feel I'm in for an uphill slog here 

The joys of being an Alfisti eh?? Ha ha

[shiny_car]

Sorry to hear of your woes, but I enjoyed reading your story! I am not surprised at the inaction by ATECO, though they seem to be within their rights (subject to what's been discussed).

Is the car a 2.2JTS, out of curiosity? And I figure the car 'feels' ok to drive. Whilst I'm no expert, I'm just wondering exactly what part was replaced.

Also, has the car ever had any accident damage, or performance mods fitted?

[Gary687]

Hi Shiny car

Thanks for your comments and see below for the latest saga....but in response to your post, you are of course correct that ATECO are within their rights but it just sticks in the craw that I'm one of the many loyal saddos that support the brand 100% buying t-shirts, mugs, flags, models etc etc (the wife goes mental at the stuff I buy sometimes!!) and have done for so damn long at often ridiculous expense and yet, at the first time of asking, they refuse me any form of assistance!! It is indeed the 2.2JTS and it has had both the standard issues - prematurely failing steering rack ($3,500 to just supply from Alfa Oz, £600 to supply from the UK!) and now this warning light/stretched timing chain issue. The car feels fine to drive but apparently a stretch of a mere 2mm can cause the sensor to light up! The part they replaced was the variable cam sensor or something - but that's largely irrelelvant given the latest info as per below....and no, no performance mods or accident damage, just a full and unblemished main dealer service history up until this sorry saga whereby I can't see myself remaining in the system if this is the type of service I get 

[Gary687]

An update for you all if you're interested...

My car has been in Alfa Brisbane for a couple of days for them to sort out the continuous light issue whilst I'm over here in the UK on a trip. Anyway an e-mail arrived today stating that the sensor is functioning correctly and the timing chain has stretched and needs replacing - $2,100!!!! ($900 parts, $1200 labour = 8hrs) So basically a) I spent $544 on something that I clearly didn't need and b) I was telling them all along that this was the issue courtesy of this forum and they wouldn't hear of it as 'they don't listen to forums' etc etc!!

I popped into AMC in Chelmsford in Essex for a chat and what a difference in service!!! They were awesome and were ever so helpful with advice as I was upfront and told them I was only visiting from Oz and they couldn't have been more helpful. Anyway, they said they can get me the complete timing chain replacement kit for about £150 - somewhat different to $900!!!!!! They also said it was to be about 3hrs labour whereas Brisbane want to charge for 8 hours labour!!

Anyway they advised me to ring Alfa Italy direct on a freephone number they gave me as they said if this was a UK car that was only 4months out of warranty then Alfa would authorise a free replacement with no questions asked!!! So I did and spoke to a very nice SA woman called Michelle who has started a file for me and will get back to me within 48hrs as I want this done under warranty/goodwill if at all possible. I shall keep you informed of things as they happen but either way, a timing chain replacement is being done!!!!!

[dehne]

and thats the way they should be