16v Cams

[aussiehcviva]

Good afternoon. Has anyone installed uprated cams to their 16v 33 engine? If so what profile and where did you get them from? what typre of power did you get as a result?

I have found some via colombo and bariani (http://www.colombo-bariani.com/catalogo_auto.php?&sel_id_marca=1&lang=eng) but have no idea of the results.

any advice is appreciated.

ta

[Martinsifredi]

Hi there,

You are 100% on track with the brand , I don't have much info on these cams . If you were to do the cams on a 16V engine I strongly suggest running a piggy back ECU or wolf 3D to re-map settings and calibrate with new cams .  This along with new custom exhaust and a proper cold air induction/filtration system will definitely give you more power,torque and higher rev range . Give the guys at Mauceri Motors (Sebastian or Corado) a call on 03 9543 6466, at least that way you will get to a accurate solution very quickly , instead of guessing .

I hope this will help you achieve what you are after .

Martin

[aussiehcviva]

thanks for the suggestion.

[Frank Musco]

Coincidentally I get cams locally made which are almost identical in grind to the full-race cam specs. I have been using them the last four years, they produce 100hp at the wheels @ 7500rpm fitted to an 8V 1500 with twin 36 IDF's. No power under 5500 rpm, but after it's unbelievably responsive and very strong to 8500rpm. Very expensive, so double expensive for quads.

Start with their full race cam, but I say this assuming you understand that to make these cams work, ALOT of work is required. Don't fit these big type of cams without doing much else because you WILL go backwards a long way. Track cams only!

In my opinion its better to fit programmable ecu first, optimise the new ecu system, then once reliable and easily tune-able, begin engine mods. I have never seen a modified quad cam run at sprints in Victoria, so its difficult to say or describe how they perform. Very expensive to build a race quad cam engine.

Eventually I will track a quady, but the next few years I'm hoping to run an 8V 1700.

Your the pioneer, good luck!

Cheers Frank.

[philpot]

Just thought i'd chip in a few observations...

One thing i've discovered, from experience, about 33 16v's is the prediliction to damage the cam followers, which in turn damages the cam lobes themselves. The followers dont appear to 'sit' in oil as they do in 8v's, which may contibute to the problem...perhaps also a contributory factor is the oil grade used during the cars life and the frequency of oil changes themselves. So unless you've had it from new.....

Only found a couple of partial references/questions about this on all the usual alfa forums.

This issue hasn't raised its head in 26 years of 8v boxer motoring so perhaps its a combination of the hydraulic followers/cam/head design and materials used in this model...

Personally, before getting into ANY mods, i'd be inspecting the existing cams/followers setup ( in particular the top/inlet cam/followers) to check their condition....and yes, that means dropping the engine to do this!

Good Luck!

Phil

PS: Some feedback re cams: www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engined-alfa-romeos/42370-colombo-bariani-cams-16v.html

[philpot]

Hi Frank, aussiehcviva, et al,

Looks like I'm getting my 16v back this week after the latest stint at Benincas. Been an epic but hopefully now over the worst!
After replacing lhs inlet cam and most of the 16 followers (thank god for the low k's spares car....) car now runs better. Removing the rhs head and fixing the bent valves probably has something to do with that too...appears it had broke a belt somewhere in its deep, dark past and had a cobbled up repair done.

And re. the clutch issue Frank, was lucky too with that. With the engine down discovered the pressure plate and thrust bearing yoke pins were about to let go....

Complicated beasties are the 16v's!

Credit to Patrick, Joe and Peter. They really do know their stuff, the car always feels better/different when you pick it up. Always a tangible improvement. Well worth the six hour bus/train ride to get to them, and to get it back driving sweet and smooth!  With something so out of the ordinary as the 16v I just have to bite the bullet and take it to True Specialists...

Wonder how many hp at the front wheels now...cant wait to get it back and drive the thing!

PS: apparently now it can run its blue relay and lambda sensor

[Frank Musco]

Phil, Good to hear another 16v back on the road. You're definately on the right track, sounds like you are over the worse.

Do you have anymore info on what happens to the lifters on these motors? For example: Does the hydraulic part of the lifter fail first, then the excesive clearance cause damage from 'tapping' or does the hardened surface of the lifter fail before the hydraulic part?

Does the same problem happen when solid lifters are fitted?

My 16v has one lifter tapping once motor is hot. Not sure whether to replace the one, or convert to solid, ready for the track?

Cheers Frank.

[aussiehcviva]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm trying to do this properly and have focussed on suspension set up (90 per cent there) and installed an after market engine management system to future proof for any mods i make down the track. I've been competing with the car for a while now and it has not missed a beat but really do need more power to move ahead, hence the cams.

i'm looking to make a move on this in the next month or so and will post an update with the results.

thanks again

[philpot]

Hi aussiehcviva, Frank and all.

Firstly, thats a really good question that I 've been given conflicting advice about. Chicken and egg scenario is all I can say at this stage. Which comes first?

Good to see others committing to the 16v, wasn't trying to be negative, just a heads up for those that weren't aware of what 'can' happen.  My 16v had very little history, i cant track more than few years so....perhaps its oil changes weren't regular enough/right oil/ or the thing was just not looked after! Who knows if it's been over revved or just thrashed? Not a total braincase did have it checked before i bought it though.....

The comment about the cams was from someone in south australia, so the club racing versions are out there....Anyone want to chip in here ?

Onwards !   Cheers, Phil.