I remain hopeful

[Duk]

You could have just linked this discussion to GTV6.com 

http://alfagtv6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3302

[MD]

I know what you mean but times move on and new things come out all the time. Besides, the two Forums have a completely different character and its interesting to find these differences as you go. I am still getting used to these guys or to put it in a better way, they seem to be aclimatising gradually to me.

My hate mail is getting less and less. Could be simply the cost of living going up though..

Just posting a link doesn't generate the stimulous of local discussion as it otherwise would in my opinion. The reason why it has been a little bland is that there is such a diversity of Alfas owned here and  I must presume many are reasonably satisfied with their current cars and some may have never even driven a rear wheel drive model.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Maybe they're listening to you MD....  http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/263068/new_alfa_romeo_4c_gta_sports_car.html

[MD]

Great find Sheldon.

Brings a new focus on the marketing thinking I believe. What I mean is that within the curent Alfa ownership spectrum, we have evolved basically two camps. Front wheel and rear wheel supporters. Naturally some don't care either way.

So how to bring these camps together? Well, market a mid engined car which is sort of neither in the way it handles. So that just might bring out the wallets from both camps to get aquainted with something fresh that Alfa owners have not experienced before and I would be one of those guys for sure.

Good thinking Batman...

[shane wescott]

Cheer up MD.

IMHO Alfa have never have produced a mass market car that is the full package - so why start now.

There was always some fault here, or some bit that dropped of during a road test there, or the switch gear was flimsy, or my bum started to rust when i sat in it, or some other whiney, whingey little nit picky comment by some wanker journo who really should just keep driving his Wifes automatic Hyundai - BECAUSE THAT"S ALL HE DESERVES AND HE DOESN'T KNOW S^&T ABOUT REAL CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sorry got a bit carried away there :-)

I've had to defend my love of Alfa's for years and I am clearly over it. I once had a colleague who was going to buy a new car, Holden/Ford umming and ahhing, "What are you doing right now" i asked - "Nothing"

So I took him for a spin in the 99GTV I had at the time, let the engine rev, took a couple of corners at the speed limit, and the Guy had a smile on his face all the way to Lance Dixon to sign up for a 156Ti.

I've had a couple of mates who've bought an Alfa after a test drive, and some ex Mates who didn't :-)

The rest are just cars Mate, There's Alfa's and the rest are just cars.

EVERY Alfa is bit with some Italian passion in some part of it, you don't see BMW sending their museum cars around the world just so the public can meet them and spend some time with them. Their cars don't have their own little guardian who travels the world just to start and pamper the car.

Sit down and watch "Victory by Design" and if you don't get a tear in your eye at some point in that show - sell your Alfa - there's something wrong with you !!

"Our BMW ist technically perfect" - yeah big deal - it's as boring as batshit!!!

"The doors are all zee perfect fit", bloody wonderful, does this thing have an engine - how come I can't hear it.

" My VW ist most reliable" - that's because nobody drives it like a real car, they adjust the plastic flower on the dash while they tottle up the shops.

So Guys, for me, I hope they keep making cars with passion for the Alfa driver, and the new converts

The last thing I want is for them to start competing with all the other boring Marques in Europe who seem to churn out the same cookie cutter crap cars.

And don't get me started on Ducati's. I teared up watching "Troy Story - the story of Troy Bayliss" the other night when the Ducati team went apeshit when he won a race - passion - living breathing passion -that's what Italian motor enginnering is all about.

I am now off my soapbox and planted firmly on the couch - no beer for me though it's FebFast :-)

Catch ya

Shane

[MD]

What an entertaining read. I can just picture your ticking away at the keyboard and reaching for another beer as you press on..but having said that mate, WTF can I say to follow that up ?? !! 

I have to say I do like the power to weight prospects though and I cannot believe Alfa would let me down in the chassis department. Who cares if the electric bum warmer is missing and the passenger mirror fell off on the test drive.?

[Duk]

I have to say I do like the power to weight prospects though and I cannot believe Alfa would let me down in the chassis department. Who cares if the electric bum warmer is missing and the passenger mirror fell off on the test drive.?

Alfa Romeo MUST provide a car that can stay in 1 piece for more than 5 minutes!
What is it with this notion that character and woeful build quality are bedfellows? I really don't get it. How is it acceptable, in this day and age to even entertain the idea that Alfa could build a car like a 4C GTA and it would still be fantastic, even if it did fall to pieces in your driveway

Provide respectable build quality, enjoyment and value for money! It really isn't that hard. And whether the die hard are willing to acknowledge it or not, the Japanese HAVE been providing both for a long time.

[MD]

Duk,

I don't need a reliable Japanese bum warmer much like I dont give sheit about a left hand mirror. Likewise I don't give a rats arse about the other 200 tach ons that the japs have installed into their so called reliable cars to get a marketing edge but have no soul.

We are not talknig about larde arse commuters here that want to get  from A>B without the wiper falling off. We are talking of enthusiasts who derive a simple pleasure of opening the Alfa door and know by its smell that it is an Alfa irrespective of model. When they fire up that engine, a quiet irrepressible smile forms in the corner of the mouth knowing an experience is about to unfold. Changing through the gears and cruising through the corners is poetry in 3D.

With or without 100% build quality, there is nothing like an Alfa. The passion that Alfa fans have for their cars is not the same passion that Japanese car owners have.

Over the years I have driven all kinds of Jap, British, European and Yank cars. They all have their idividuality to be sure but I tell you this, I always come back to my Alfas to actually enjoy the drive. If there is a meaningful failing on the car, I simply fix it and get back on the wagon and keep rowing that box..reliablity is a relative criteria.

[Duk]

Duk,

I don't need a reliable Japanese bum warmer much like I dont give sheit about a left hand mirror. Likewise I don't give a rats arse about the other 200 tach ons that the japs have installed into their so called reliable cars to get a marketing edge but have no soul.

We are not talknig about larde arse commuters here that want to get  from A>B without the wiper falling off. We are talking of enthusiasts who derive a simple pleasure of opening the Alfa door and know by its smell that it is an Alfa irrespective of model. When they fire up that engine, a quiet irrepressible smile forms in the corner of the mouth knowing an experience is about to unfold. Changing through the gears and cruising through the corners is poetry in 3D.

With or without 100% build quality, there is nothing like an Alfa. The passion that Alfa fans have for their cars is not the same passion that Japanese car owners have.

Over the years I have driven all kinds of Jap, British, European and Yank cars. They all have their idividuality to be sure but I tell you this, I always come back to my Alfas to actually enjoy the drive. If there is a meaningful failing on the car, I simply fix it and get back on the wagon and keep rowing that box..reliablity is a relative criteria.

Image is king in the marketing world. And it not just the Japanese who add gimmicks to their cars. What Alfa's do you return to MD? Your '80s GTV6 or are there those of the FIAT era as well?
Die hards are die hards, regardless of the mark. How do you think it would be received on the Toyota forum if I started to say that my MR2 was just a shopping trolley? I'm not 1 to own a car for the approval of others, and I'm not here to try and convert anybody. But my MR2 is the car I have owned the longest and it would be the 75 that was moved on before the MR2 simply because I've had much more enjoyment with the Toyota than the Alfa. And part of that enjoyment comes from its durability and logical (for an '80s car) design and layout.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Cheer up MD.
IMHO Alfa have never have produced a mass market car that is the full package - so why start now.
There was always some fault here, or some bit that dropped of during a road test there, or the switch gear was flimsy, or my bum started to rust when i sat in it, or some other whiney, whingey little nit picky comment by some wanker journo who really should just keep driving his Wifes automatic Hyundai - BECAUSE THAT"S ALL HE DESERVES AND HE DOESN'T KNOW S^&T ABOUT REAL CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry got a bit carried away there :-)
I've had to defend my love of Alfa's for years and I am clearly over it. I once had a colleague who was going to buy a new car, Holden/Ford umming and ahhing, "What are you doing right now" i asked - "Nothing"
So I took him for a spin in the 99GTV I had at the time, let the engine rev, took a couple of corners at the speed limit, and the Guy had a smile on his face all the way to Lance Dixon to sign up for a 156Ti.
I've had a couple of mates who've bought an Alfa after a test drive, and some ex Mates who didn't :-)
The rest are just cars Mate, There's Alfa's and the rest are just cars.
EVERY Alfa is bit with some Italian passion in some part of it, you don't see BMW sending their museum cars around the world just so the public can meet them and spend some time with them. Their cars don't have their own little guardian who travels the world just to start and pamper the car.
Sit down and watch "Victory by Design" and if you don't get a tear in your eye at some point in that show - sell your Alfa - there's something wrong with you !!
"Our BMW ist technically perfect" - yeah big deal - it's as boring as batshit!!!
"The doors are all zee perfect fit", bloody wonderful, does this thing have an engine - how come I can't hear it.
" My VW ist most reliable" - that's because nobody drives it like a real car, they adjust the plastic flower on the dash while they tottle up the shops.
So Guys, for me, I hope they keep making cars with passion for the Alfa driver, and the new converts
The last thing I want is for them to start competing with all the other boring Marques in Europe who seem to churn out the same cookie cutter crap cars.
nd don't get me started on Ducati's. I teared up watching "Troy Story - the story of Troy Bayliss" the other night when the Ducati team went apeshit when he won a race - passion - living breathing passion -that's what Italian motor enginnering is all about.
I am now off my soapbox and planted firmly on the couch - no beer for me though it's FebFast :-)
Catch ya
Shane

Sorry Shane, nothing personal, but this is a load of shit.

If you can't see that BMW have been making better cars than Alfa for the better part of 30 years then you need to open your eyes.

In the 80s, the BMW M3 was a far more exciting car than anything Alfa came out with.  And even though it got 'comparatively' soft, at least BMW kept at it, and until recently their M cars were still kick-arse track cars.

I wish we could say the same about Alfa.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Oh, and by the way, if you want to hold on to the other part of your argument, I wouldn't google "bmw museum", "mercedes museum", "porsche museum", or "alfa museum".  Only one of those marques doesn't give a shit about their past .  Guess which one?

[shane wescott]

No offence taken Sheldon - of course I am full of shit :-)

Just to make sure I went to the Blarney Stone last year so I have another 7 years of talking shit in me.

I thought the original discussion was about the mass produced models - of course an M3 is an awesome car.

Would I buy one - no, I've been in one, it was a noisy, very fast German car, but it aint an Alfa.

As for the museums, 3 of them look like shrines, and the other looks like a big garage. Just my opinion, but i think it's quite sad to see classic cars who will never see the road again, or do what they were designed to do which is drive.

A point made very clear to me when I met the Alfetta at Philip Island last year. The joy I got from meeting that car, and hearing, smelling. and feeling t start on the Sunday is something I wont forget.

Catch ya

Shane

[MD]

Let's not make a generalisation that Jap machinery is without flaws. Take a look at any smoking vehicle and 9 out of 10 it will be a Mitsubishi.(the other one is a clapped Alfa   ) Soft bores and crappy ring combos. The mighty Nissan (Datsun 1600, P510)considered one of the best rally cars for its time suffers badly from front end lift over 135kph washing out steering and yet it has an icon status. For the equivalent time, a humble Giulia Super of the same capacity would have it for breakfast on tarmac. The other great rally brand Subaru for all its attributes still hasn't solved its weak gearboxes that crap out first so let's keep it in perspective. Never forget that most of the implemented Jap mechanical designs originated in Europe.

It's much easier to perfect a concept than to come up with one.

The irony for the Asian makes is that when you drive down any affluent Asian hubs,guess what brands proliferate and I can tell you it isn't Lexus notwithstanding its excellece.

Why is that so? You work it out.

Alfa core machinery is as reliable as the next brand. Peripheral failures are a nuisance but the car's overall satisfaction invariably negates a rejection of the brand.You don't win serious competition against world brands with stuff that doesn't cut it and Alfa has won plenty.

Nobody is saying BMW is not currently leading the marketing charge and they remain the primary competition foe.

[Brad M]

Hold your horses there good buddy

l don't see any BMW's in this picture

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/20743/alfa-romeo-diesels-dominate-at-bathurst

Good marketing exercise there. Easy to win the class when you are the only competitor ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_WPS_Bathurst_12_Hour

159 was 25th outright, First of one car in class H
147 was 32nd outright (last car not to retire), First of two cars in Class I (the other car was an Astra that DNF)

3 of the 4 BMW's were in front of the 159.

The 147 was at the 6 Hour last year, driven by some good steerers, it past me without any issues.

[MD]

Yeah Paul that's all fine and dandy but the only reason they won is because they had a massive power to weight advantage- half the parts fell off along the way...