Alfa Romeo Spider V6 2001- Engine OIL

[JAM87]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum and would love some help regarding the purchase of an Alfa Romeo Spider. I have been looking at an Alfa Romeo V6 Spider from 2001. I had the vehicle inspected (pre purchase inspection) at a major Alfa Romeo dealer in Melbourne. At the completion of the inspection one of the mechanics explained that the oil in the vehicle was too thin and not the recommended Selenia oil as pushed by the dealers. The outcome from this is that the vehicle could have some serious engine wear with the potential for the cams needing to be replaced at a cost of $4,000. This has concerned me greatly and has me posing the question, " is this a factual issue which needs to be taken into serious consideration when purchasing the vehicle, or merely spin from the dealer to ensure i am $4,000 poorer??

I would love your input as this has me seriously thinking if owning an alfa is worth the potential heartache.

Thanks,

John

[colcol]

It sounds like spin from the dealer to push their brand of Selena oil, that strange, as it Happens has a tie up with FIAT, try a second opinion, go to an independant Alfa Service provider, have the compression checked, remove the cam covers to check for worn camshafts, if i remember rightly, the V-6 uses 10 - 40 fully synthetic oil, how thin was the oil in your car?, 0 - 10!, how would they know how thin the oil was, unless they drained it anyway, just make sure the car has a good service record, and ring the place that did all the work, and ask them about the car, the main thing with these is that the oil is changed on time and that the  cambelt replacement is done at the correct interval, also make sure it has a steel impellor water pump, not a plastic one, for a place to take your car to, look at our sponsors page, Colin.

[JAM87]

Thanks Colin I really appreciate your reply.

In the service records it shows that the vehicle has missed its 20,000 km service with the first service taking place at 30,000 kms. This concerns me greatly, but to be honest the owner isn't a car buff so this could easily have been an instance where he took the vehicle to get serviced, forgot the book at home and never went back to get it stamped. I don't think the dealer completing the inspection would have drained the oil so I'm assuming the assumption was made by looking at the dipstick. The cambelt hasn't been changed yet so that would be a expense I would incorporate into the buying price.

I'd love to own an Alfa buy I certainly don't want to throw good money after bad. Would you buy a car like this with 50,000kms or do you think I'm asking for trouble if I proceed?

Thanks John

[Steve S]

50K is very low for a 2001. It should be servced once a year regardless of mileage though. From what you are saying it sounds like it has only been serviced 2-3 times in its life? I would avoid if so,


At the end of the day its a used car. The majority of cars driving around have not been looked after by the book. Missing one service is not a huge concern, as long as its been well maintained otherwise. What more can you do.

[JAM87]

Thanks Steve,

From what I recall it has been serviced 3 times in its life. I thought that due to the fact it's only done 50,000kms this may be ok but from what I now hear once a year is minimal for these vehicles irrespective of kms.

[JAM87]

Colin,

Have read your comment with regards to taking off the cam covers to check the cam shafts, would that be a hard job? I don't understand why this dealer wouldn't just take the covers off and check and save these guessing games. Also I had requested a compression test but they supposedly ran out of time....

[colcol]

A compression check is a simple way of checking the health of the engine, thats the most important thing to do, if the Alfa dealer won't do it, go to an independant Alfa specialist and get them to do it, if you decide you are still interested in the car, ask them for a price for pulling off the cam covers for a look see at the camshafts, and make sure it has a steel fan water pump to avoid overheating, Colin.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Colin,

Have read your comment with regards to taking off the cam covers to check the cam shafts, would that be a hard job? I don't understand why this dealer wouldn't just take the covers off and check and save these guessing games.

Also I had requested a compression test but they supposedly ran out of time....

You answered your own question.  Removing cam covers on a V6 involves all of the labour to remove the spark plugs, plus more.  At least 2 hours, and probably more like 3 by the time you stuff around with comp tests, then the gaskets on the covers would likely need replacing once disturbed, since they won't want to be redoing that work to repair an oil leak under warranty... How much do you want to spend on a pre-purchase inspection?

Haven't heard of a V6 with worn camlobes before...

A compression check is a simple way of checking the health of the engine, thats the most important thing to do, if the Alfa dealer won't do it, go to an independant Alfa specialist and get them to do it, if you decide you are still interested in the car, ask them for a price for pulling off the cam covers for a look see at the camshafts, and make sure it has a steel fan water pump to avoid overheating, Colin.

Errr.... Colin.... How do you suggest one inspects the impeller on the waterpump without removing cambelt and waterpump?  By which time you may as well replace it anyway, you've already done all the labour....

[colcol]

Re waterpump, have a look at the service record to see if it has been replaced, if nothing assume its a plastic one, BEFORE you get them to look at the camshafts, ask how much it will cost, this is a last resort, do a compression test first, that will tell all, Colin.

[JAM87]

Thanks Gents,

Really appreciate your help... The issue is the patience of the owner- I wouldn't be too keen on having my vehicle moved from dealer to dealer to check compression tests then cam covers... My father has owned numerous Mercedes Benz and I must say he has never had such problems when buying his Mercedes Benz... I'm not saying Alfa vehicles are not to the quality of Mercedes Benz but I'm starting to believe that the dealerships within Australia are really taking their clients for a ride with issues/ problems and the ridiculous amount on servicing... I can guarantee people in Italy are not paying $2,000 for cambelts every 3 years, I'd be surprised if they did the belts once in the life of the car.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

I can guarantee people in Italy are not paying $2,000 for cambelts every 3 years, I'd be surprised if they did the belts once in the life of the car.

Then the life of the car in Italy is obviously only a little over 60,000km....

[wankski]

sorry guys, but compression tests and lifting valve covers isn't exactly normal for checking out a car!! as mentioned above, it's a big job for the rear bank on the v6!

what private vendor is going to allow someone to crack open the engine for a pre-purchase inspection??

if a so called "alfa specialist" can't tell the general health and condition of a busso v6 just by running it, then they are rather crap.

I wouldn't want to call ppl i don't know names, but the "$4,000" for thin oil sounds like a load of BS to me. i am a long time advocate of using thinner oils, and selenia is a very average over priced oil. You can see my oil thread at ausalfa to understand oils a bit - but the gist is, if the oil is always held to the full mark - where it is now is an indication, but could have just been topped up, but as long as it's had oil and not run low you should be good.

http://ausalfa.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4278&start=60

the fact is, due to the hard to get location of the oil filter in the FWD v6s, seldom are they ever changed! I had receipts for my car when i bought it from a "specialist" who charged for an oil and filter change, but the oil that came out of the filter when i changed it myself confirmed in my mind it was in fact not changed in a long time... like treacle... so i wouldn't be too fussed about history if it all looks good...

personally if the engine checks out ok, i'd call it good enough! No smoke at all from cold start - a lil' tappety noise is normal, but no other noises or vibrations, and oil to the full mark, stong performance on a pull, no puffs of smoke...  you're 1/2 of the way there. The other major part is plugging it into diag or alfa examiner to pull the engine history/ verify mileage, lambda condition etc...

these engines are very well made, with a nitrided crank, as long as they've had oil half-near the recommended grade all should be ok...

JMO..

[wankski]

I'm not saying Alfa vehicles are not to the quality of Mercedes Benz but I'm starting to believe that the dealerships within Australia are really taking their clients for a ride with issues/ problems and the ridiculous amount on servicing... I can guarantee people in Italy are not paying $2,000 for cambelts every 3 years, I'd be surprised if they did the belts once in the life of the car.

it's true it can be expensive - i suggest you bone up on how to do the basic stuff and save your bones for the big things that come up, like the cambelt... on the FWD v6 - it really is a full day job, and the parts here are expensive... As per the other thread i posted it - it can be done cheaper.... parts from OS labour from LD doncaster - genuine alfa belt kit, accessory belt and WP maybe comes to around $300-350 shipped..

LD's labour around $900-1000.

not too bad - obviously they can't warrant the parts.

[JAM87]

Thanks for your threads guys,

It's greatly appreciated

[GTV 777]

CONTACT THE PREVIOUS OWNER  (Name should be in the service book)  OR THE DEALER SHOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE TO YOU.
HAVE A CHAT ABOUT THE HISTORY, SERVICING ETC & CONFIRM THE MILEAGE IS GENUINE.
THESE VEHICLES ARE SO REWARDING TO DRIVE, AND IF SERVICED BY AN ALFA SPECIALIST ARE QUITE RELIABLE.
ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT SERVICE COSTS ARE ABOVE AVERAGE AND MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE MISSED CAMBELT CHANGES
AND THE LIKE HAVE ENDED UP WITH MASSIVE REPAIR BILLS WHEN THEY HAVE FAILED.