WTB: 3.2GT v's 147GTA

[Gotta B Red]

Hi Guys,
Complete agreement from me Rory, they weren't really questions more statements/postulations urging caution than anything else.

Twistybits, I was the the fella from Brisbane, but as I've said, I bailed out. I have notified the woman you've mentioned and her voice mailbox being full is a pain but she does respond.

It was a long way to travel with 10K in my pocket and I just got a bit toey walking into a potential "situation" on my pat malone.
Risks I took in my 20s are not taken these days ..... experience has taught me, they always hurt, when it goes pearshape.
I'm not a punter anymore ...... unless I KNOW I'm going to win.

Cheers,
Andy

[TFJ100]

Hi guys,

I saw this as well and was attracted by by the price, condition and low kms.

I have since had to learn about what a "repairable write-off is"! (Thanks to all the internet blogs, what did we used to do in the old days when we wanted to know stuff!). There seem to be plenty of people who have reasonably happy stories, and a few hard-luck stories.

I spoke to "Betty" and she advises a Lance Dixon service history, and it was a light front impact. She has receipts from the repair, so in theory you could see how bad it was from how much work had to be done. (Photos would be even better).

I might try and drive it on Sunday. It seems that if you:

1) know what a GT should drive like
2) get the right insepctions done
3) don't care much about re-sale value

then saving ~$8k on an equivalent 2nd hand one is a good deal.

Red flags are :

1) The re-registration not having been done
2) The (sweet old) mother selling it

As usual (for me at least!) when buying Alfas in Victoria, it always seems to be from a suburb I've never been to or have never heard of!

Cheers
Torben

[wankski]

haha.. not with a stick.

first, light impact does not write off a vehicle - too much work was required, and to the structure to fix it.

second, you will need a VIV cert to register it... and that is why it's not rego'd in vic...

third, if you fail VIV you're boned.

forth, assuming this car tracks right and drives ok - it's good for the track, not the road.... 10k isn't that good.... $7-8k for parts might be ok...

fifth, it will ALWAYS have worthless resale, no matter how well it's fixed...

sixth, you can often find clean v6 GTs now for 5-7k more... worth it...

good luck to her!

[twistybits]

I couldn't help myself.........I had to go and check this  this car out.
Perhaps the story that was sold to me was legitimate, perhaps the 'minor' repaired damage was perfectly fixed and this would be a breeze to get back onto the road?
With such low km's, a nice colour combination and being so close to home it was worth a look!
My findings (at the rear of a very dodgy warehouse) caused me to jump back in the car within 5 disappointing minutes. I let Betty tell some pretty amusing tales about why her son (no where to be seen) and herself just don't have the time to have the car inspected. There were no books present and no photos to show me what the car looked like before the repairs.
The repair and paint is appalling and I have my doubts about the low km's. The tappets are very noisy, damaged exhaust and the car looks as though it has sat our in the weather for some time. 
If (and a big if) you could get the car registered then I think the car would easily swallow up 7-8K and then you would be left with a car with a dubious past. 

[Gotta B Red]

Thanks for the report Twistybits, as I and others suspected it was the "Hat Full of #*^$@ holes" option.
Just guessing here but with the "out in the weather" remark I'd add to that probably without a bonnet as that would account for the oxidation/corrosion in the alloy parts of the motor as seen in the pics.

I'm waiting for the red leather to become available assuming they don't reel in a guppy!

Cheers,
Andy

[twistybits]

I would give it a few weeks and make an offer on the seats.
Glad you didn't waste your time Andy.

Noticed that they had another 3 number plate free cars tucked in the back of this warehouse so I suspect this is not a one-off.

[twistybits]

It appears the Black GT has finally sold.......

Putting a market value on a car is a difficult thing but my research into 147 GTA's and GT's has brought up some interesting findings. I appreciate that the value of a vehicle is subject to many factors and as a vehicle becomes older it generally drops in value purely because the maintenance costs increase. Perhaps values then climb if the car is in short supply and starts to be considered more of an 'enthusiasts' car, becoming more 'collectable'.
This is without a doubt a very flat market. There are many cars occupying space on car sale websites that have remained stagnant for months and months. What I find really interesting is what price the selling market is requesting/expecting opposed to what value someone like an insurance company or the likes of Redbook put on these fine vehicles. IMO, I think the typical asking price of a GT of GTA is very reasonable when compared to other similar makes but I am biased as clearly Redbook think it is approximately half this amount.
Below is from the RedBook website:
How does RedBook.com.au price my car?
In short, we don't. What we do is provide you with an overall market value based on research. Because individual cars or bikes can be valued higher or lower depending on market forces a RedBook Personalised Valuation offers you a more accurate market value for your car or bike based on variables like kilometres travelled and overall condition.
An average private price for a 147 GTA according to RedBook is $10-12K. Some insurance companies will insure a 147GTA up to a maximum of $14.5K.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a really nice 147 GTA advertised for less than $18K. This begs the question, has Redbook undervalued this car or do sellers have unrealistic expectations?

[L4OMEO]

The market value question is an interesting one. I battled my insurance company when they gave an initial Red Book-based valuation on my written-off 156 V6 of substantially under 10k, and I think I did well to negotiate this up to around 13k using market-place data combined with good subject knowledge and car-club credentials. When I replaced the V6 with the 156 GTA, the same company claimed its market value was 11.5k and could only be negotiated up to 14.5k as an agreed value despite the fact there were 6 similar models on the market at the time at an average of 20.5k. No, I'm sure they don't all sell for their asking price, but show me where they're all selling for 11.5k and I'll form a disorderly queue 

[Gotta B Red]

It's lookin' more like a Conga line to me!
No way! have I seen a 156 gta for 11,500 not even close, 15K yes, but not that low. The mean over the last 8 months I've been trawling has been 20K. for the 156gta but significantly more variance for the GT and the 147gta there is a good deal more of them,hence more competition and the consequence, fundamental economics.
The 156 gta has entered the arena of "collectable" well and truly, if it wasn't from it's outset.
The other models sharing that powerplant aren't quite there yet and and are far more plentiful ...... market forces prevail!
If you watch long enough examples start at what the seller thinks or would like to get for their vehicle, a 1~6 month perspective applies as it's often the minimum amount of rego a seller can buy.
Over the said period it is evident sellers revise their plans downward to a point they feel is their bottomline, this not only for Alfas it happens across the board.
The data Redbook et al release public domain, I think, draws largely from the reported on everyones rego transfer sale price along with auction data. All that's needed is a couple of "barn finds" flood or hail damage models from a particular model year to come up in the accounting window or timeframe and bingo the market value goes south bigtime .... lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics.
Betty's Black Beauty is a case in point the simple fact that a GT of whatever model year it was sold for a huge discount will drag down the average for that model/year.
The purveyors of statistical data, to my mind, offer nothing more than a guide. Other and numerous factors come into play from both sides of the classical sale relationship.
As a "Guide" their data can be useful, if one can apply filters or modifiers that load or discount the guide price based on the factors or variables seen as valuable or desirable, or not. Then the guide price can be adjusted to a point or range that the buyer considers a fair or true appraisal of worth.
It's the way I would arrive at what I thought was a fair offer for the car. If it came to the point of offers. Sometimes the seller  gets to your formulated price point all by themselves .... well not necessarily with any input from the ultimate purchaser,but perhaps that of others.
If your not watching closely enough those opportunities are occasionally missed.
Recently observed (for some time) two cases of 147gtas that started at 17,000 and 19,000 respectively and sold for 11K and then 9.2K yep a 147gta(sele) started around 19 and sold for 9 .... fact. It took 6~7 months to happen I might add.
I'm not really looking anymore as I found my baby and I'm very happy (that's a heinous understatement) it's not pristine but in good order nonetheless, I'm certainly not complaining and I'm well pleased and happy I got a good deal.
Q2 goes in Monday next, adios a major concern and let full exploration begin.

Don't give up or be disheartened twistybits, your baby will come along too ... hang in there and keep looking, cast a wiider net if necessary but be patient ,it will happen.

Initially both buyers and sellers have fairly narrow rules of engagement .... eventually they both learn psalms of compromise.

Cheers,
Andy

[twistybits]

After much deliberation between these two brilliant models, I recently became the proud owner of a 147GTA. It appears to have had a great life and has had all the hard work done with a few nice extras like an aftermarket exhaust system  that lets this little beauty sing as she should. Thus far, I have only just clocked up 100km of mainly traffic driving and really can't wait to get the car out into fresh air and enjoy some 'Twisty bits'.  See a few happy snaps below.

http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x398/andy0502/147%20GTA/?albumview=slideshow&track=share_email_album_view_click

[trippytipo]

She looks lovely, great buy - congratulations and welcome to the family!